Scroggs, Phyllis

              
ORAL HISTORY OF PHYLLIS SCROGGS
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
February 10, 2018
 
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is February the 10th, 2018. I am at my studio here in Oak Ridge with Phyllis Scroggs. Phyllis, thank you for taking time to come over on this rainy afternoon.
MRS. SCROGGS: You're welcome. It's a pleasure.
MR. MCDANIEL: You're a long time Oak Ridger.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yes, I am.
MR. MCDANIEL: You've done a lot of different things. Let's start at the beginning. Tell me where you were born and raised, something about your family.
MRS. SCROGGS: Well, I was born in Columbia, South Carolina, but I hardly remember that part because I was just barely four when we moved here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: My father was given the option of going into the Navy or coming to Oak Ridge, because he had good education and that was the option they gave well educated men at that time, only men. He said, "Hey, anything but going in the military." So he said, "Yeah, I'll go." Although no one even knew what Oak Ridge was, it was on no map.
MR. MCDANIEL: What year was that when you all came here?
MRS. SCROGGS: '43.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, so 1943.
MRS. SCROGGS: My grandparents, who followed us everywhere we were, no matter. When Mother tells them, they said, "We can't accommodate that. We've got to know where you're going." And so she said, "As soon as I can let you know, I will let you know." Sure enough, as soon as we knew something, we let them know and he got a job here too and they came. Anyway, I think everybody knows about early Oak Ridge, no one could get in the gate unless they had a pass and you had to go through a number of steps before you could even get them approved. It was really crazy. I didn't have a badge because I was so little.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, you didn't have to have a badge until you were 12, I believe.
MRS. SCROGGS: Right, right. I still have my granddaddy's badge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, do you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Uh-huh (affirmative). Jean Bardorf has it for the Soup Kitchen, because she has a lot of my memorabilia that she keeps on the walls and everything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. When we moved here, we moved on ... I'll think of the name of the road.
MR. MCDANIEL: It's okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: It was nothing but a mud road. We had, what they called, it wasn't one of the current models of the house, I think it was called a T. That meant it was a duplex and I think one end of it had two bedrooms and one end had three. You qualified for one or the other, depending on how many children you had. We had, my parents had two children, my brother and I but since it was a boy and a girl, we could get three bedrooms. If it was two of any sex, you only got two beds.
MR. MCDANIEL: They have to share a room, sure.
MRS. SCROGGS: We lived right at the end of this road and ... anyway, there was hardly any getting out because it was just nothing but red clay mud. We didn't even have boardwalks when we came down. There was no way to get out.  One of the first memories I have, my mother had never had a potbellied stove. My mother could do anything, she was like, "You show me and I'll do it then." She had to feed it with coal and we had a coal bin right outside that the government gave us coal. She had to feed it. She wouldn't quite, hadn't got quite the knack of it so she had to open it to stoke it. She opened it one morning and it blew up. Took all the hair that she had off, eyebrows, everything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh goodness.
MRS. SCROGGS: She didn't do one thing but to usher us over to the neighbors and grab something, ice and put it around her head and get in the car and drive us, I mean drive to the emergency room. Maybe she took us. My dad, took a bus. All the men took a bus.
MR. MCDANIEL: He's already gone to work.
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah, oh yeah, real early. Anyway, that was one of my early memories. I remember my brother, he used to ride a wagon down to the bottom. They'd start at the top and go way down in the woods and he'd run into trees. It was a great place to grow up as kids.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you don't remember where it was.
MRS. SCROGGS: I will in a minute.
MR. MCDANIEL: You will, what general area was it in?
MRS. SCROGGS: It was near Highland View School.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: Because they had to build Highland View School for me to start preschool.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh I see.
MRS. SCROGGS: I started early kindergarten at Highland View School but the school had to be built before I could start.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure, sure.
MRS. SCROGGS: It was a W road. I go down there quite a bit just to check out, to make sure they haven't torn my house down.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: You said your dad worked, which plant did he work at?
MRS. SCROGGS: I can't even remember. He was an accountant.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was he? Okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: He left there to go to Recreation and Welfare. I don't know if you even know what that is.
MR. MCDANIEL: Mm-hmm (negative), for DOE [Department of Energy]? For the government?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, it's for the government. Anyway, see I was too young and too little. Mother could tell me what all that was but she left us a few years ago. After that, he went into business for himself. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did he?
MRS. SCROGGS: Had his own accounting firm. They were here until they died.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were they?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.  Mother taught piano.
MR. MCDANIEL: What were your father's and mother's first name?
MRS. SCROGGS: Don and Dot. Dorothy and Donald Mance. She taught piano for 50 years. Everybody knew Dot Mance. In fact, I would hear the kids practicing and I'd come home and I'd sit down and play whatever they were playing. Frustrated her because I wouldn't play my ... I wouldn't play by the notes, I'd play by ear. Anyway, she worked at the Music Box and she worked ... she always had an extra job so she could sneak and buy me clothes because my dad was very penurious. 
MR. MCDANIEL: As an accountant.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yes, exactly, exactly.
MR. MCDANIEL: Where did she teach? Did she teach out of your home?
MRS. SCROGGS: Mostly out of the home. She'd go to the kid's houses. Then a little later on, we moved to Clinton for a short time, or they did after I got married. They kept the house in Oak Ridge and rented it out. She just wanted a taste of living in another community. She taught at Glen Ellen schools. I think she may have taught the handicapped or something. She was just ... she did everything. She was president of the Pilot Club here. I think she was a charter member. She did ... she was into everything. Anyway, trying to think early years. Of course, everybody walked to school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Mm-hmm (affirmative), and you said you went to Highland View once it was built?
MRS. SCROGGS: All the way through, from kindergarten, all the way through. We finally moved up on West Outer Drive and into an L, that's also a duplex, upstairs and downstairs. Let me think, my brother had a paper route. We got one of the first new cars, came off of the ... after the war.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. Oh, we were so proud. My daddy would drive it around. I could remember when the war was over, I was in that crowd down there in front of the ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah. Of course, I was almost too little.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, you were about six or seven then?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, to understand, but I remember being in that crowd.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. I think it was ... maybe it was the, with all the pictures that were taken, I think it was the bus station at that time, instead of the post office. Anyway…
MR. MCDANIEL: The picture that was taken at War Ends crowd, is that where you're talking about? The War Ends picture where they're holding up the newspapers?
MRS. SCROGGS: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: The one where the floats were ... at the end of the war.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, sure, sure.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. I remember that distinctly.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MRS. SCROGGS: Let me think, if you could feed me some questions.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. What was it like living in Oak Ridge in the late '40s as a ... what all did you all do?
MRS. SCROGGS: Well we could go to the movie for nine cents. I know every year ... the Jefferson theater, they had a party for all of the employees of the Lab. We got a great big bag of candy. It's wonderful. Going to the movie was wonderful because it didn't cost much and we could get candy for nothing. That was a big deal.
MR. MCDANIEL: If you had a quarter, you could make a whole day of it, couldn't you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh, yeah. We'd go to the swimming pool and I think that was really cheap. The pool was wonderful until they ... lets see, how was it, for a while, they closed the pool because of polio.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative), I remember that. Then we couldn't go in, when we were real hot, they said, you shouldn't go in the pool when you're real hot and get cold, because that caused polio.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative). There was some weirdo stuff. I was a good swimmer. I was in the ... who was it that started the water ballet? The synchronized swimming, I was in the synchronized swimming group.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, were you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. Then I was in Jefferson when it was up on the hill. Took violin from this, everybody, the music teacher, can't think now who it was but anyway. I started in at the new high school. Went all the way through Oak Ridge High School.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: All the way through all the Oak Ridge schools.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh right, right, right.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: How was high school, what was the high school like back then? What year did you graduate high school?
MRS. SCROGGS: '57.
MR. MCDANIEL: '57, okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: I remember we just had a lot of fun. I was in the Drama Club. We took a lot of trips. We put on Carousel. I remember that, I was a Carousel dancer. We had a lot of fun. Before lunch, we would dance out in the hall. We must have a little record player, because we wouldn't have a jukebox but a little record player and we, I remember dancing out in the hall.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Who was the drama teacher when you were in high school?
MRS. SCROGGS: Bill Louis.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. And he directed the shows?
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative), he was also a swimming instructor. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Was he?
MRS. SCROGGS: He and his wife both.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. Who were some of your favorite teachers in high school?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh, gosh. You know people, I'm in a lot of groups now that talk about teachers and, I honestly can't remember. 
MR. MCDANIEL: It's hard to remember, isn't it?
MRS. SCROGGS: It really is. It really is.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's okay, that's alright. Were you involved in ... you said you were in the Drama Club, were you involved in other things? Were you involved in one of the sororities, the groups that they had back then?
MRS. SCROGGS: I wasn't and what was good about that is I got to go to all of their parties?
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: That made it really good. I just remembered that high school was fun and I got to mentor a lot of guys that would not ordinarily be able to make it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure.
MRS. SCROGGS: I can remember they're always on Facebook, they say, "Did you know that at one time, they had typing classes that just had typewriters?" And I think, "Well yeah."
MR. MCDANIEL: Well yeah, exactly. That was when I was in high school, that wasn't that long ago.
MRS. SCROGGS: No, I didn't think so either.
MR. MCDANIEL: Doesn't seem like it.
MRS. SCROGGS: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you take any of the dance classes? Wasn't there dance studio above the Oak Terrace?
MRS. SCROGGS: I took dance classes and I took tap, ballet and modern dance. I took modern dance. That was before it was even cool. I always loved, loved, loved, loved dancing. In fact, I was sure that I was going to become a professional dancer.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah, oh yeah, of course. Then I took voice from Mr. Bristo. He was sure that I had a future in opera, you know all this stuff. Anyway, then one of the highlights, my brother and I, even though siblings, you think are going to fight, my brother and I were so close that we were sure, before we realized that this couldn't, we thought we'd get married someday. We adored each other. When he was in, over at UT [University of Tennessee], in a fraternity, he would invite me to his fraternity dances, because we could dance so well together. We were the perfect partners because he taught me to dance. Jitterbug, me over his head and down, oh the whole thing. People would just stand back and watch us dance. He'd introduce me as his girlfriend, of course.
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course, of course.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, it was really fun. Yeah, I did a lot of dancing, all kinds.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. You grew up in Oak Ridge, what were some of the places did you all go, this was the mid '50s so it was kind of rock and rolling wasn't it a little bit?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah, we'd go to the Snow White Drive-In. And Service Drugstore, which is now Big Ed's, that's where we always went to have our annual signed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah, everybody was there and you know. We always went to ... also to somebody's house. We had annual signing party. Another big event, I bet they don't even do that anymore.
MR. MCDANIEL: They probably don't. Did you ever get into any trouble?
MRS. SCROGGS: I didn't, I've told at reunions, that I skipped school one time with, at that time, we called her Eleanor and she calls herself Ellie now. She was the most prim and proper girl and I encouraged her to skip school with me. We went out to Cove Lake pool and she was a champion swimmer and diver and we spent all day out there just swimming and diving. We had the best time. We didn't do anything malicious at all.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah sure, you're just playing hooky.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you get in trouble for it?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you a bad influence on her?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: How funny, how funny. Oh goodness. You graduated high school in 1957.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, by the way, I lived on Holston Lane.
MR. MCDANIEL: Holston Lane, okay. It came to you, didn't it?
MRS. SCROGGS: I'm like a toaster, you put it in, you have to wait, see. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, then it pops out.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, good. You graduated 1957, and then what happened?
MRS. SCROGGS: First of all, I was married very young and he was in the service, so we traveled around a lot, a lot, a lot.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: I had two children, two little boys. They're now here. My last husband, who I’m widowed from, we both actually, I went to work. By the way, that first marriage only lasted about 10 years. I came back to Oak Ridge and that's when I had some good jobs and finally went to work at Tennelec, no I'm sorry, ORTEC [Oak Ridge Technical Enterprises Corporation]. Worked there for almost 15 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right, lets go back. 
MRS. SCROGGS: Okay.
MR. MCDANIEL: When you graduated high school, you got married, is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yep.
MR. MCDANIEL: Then you moved away for 10 years because your husband was in the service, you had two boys. After 10 years, the marriage was over and you came back to Oak Ridge.
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
MR. MCDANIEL: You been here ever since?
MRS. SCROGGS: No. Because when I married-
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, we'll get to that.
MRS. SCROGGS: I have to say, when I went to work for ORTEC, I went to also then, I switched and went to Tennelec. Then, well, I'll tell you. You were going to catch up.
MR. MCDANIEL: We'll get to that. When you came back after being gone for 10 years, what did you do?
MRS. SCROGGS: Moved in with my parents.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Because I didn't have any money.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right and two little boys?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, and two little boys. I tried to get a job. I met a PhD doctor and he had contacts at ORTEC. I hitched my wagon to a star and I got a good job there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, what did you do there?
MRS. SCROGGS: I was in accounting because, of course, the history with accounting. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.
MRS. SCROGGS: I had a good job but I hated it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh really?
MRS. SCROGGS: I mean I'm good at figures but it's not my cup of tea. When an opening came through for sales, I grabbed it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, at ORTEC or at Tennelec?
MRS. SCROGGS: ORTEC.
MR. MCDANIEL: ORTEC, okay. You were there for how long at ORTEC?
MRS. SCROGGS: About almost 15 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: 15 years. 
MRS. SCROGGS: I was one of the early, early ... there was less than 100 employees when I went to work there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh I see, okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: When I went to work in sales, very, very happy. That's where I met my husband. He was in R&D [research and development] then he moved into sales later on. Anyway, then he went to work as president at Tennelec and I was the sales administrator. Then when really the oil business was booming, we were asked to go to work for Dick Ellis, who was originally with ORTEC and we went out to Tulsa, Oklahoma. That's where I've been for 35 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: That's right.
MR. MCDANIEL: When did you come back to Oak Ridge?
MRS. SCROGGS: About five years ago, almost five years ago.
MR. MCDANIEL: About five years ago. Was this after your husband passed away?
MRS. SCROGGS: No, he's been gone 12 years. I wanted to be near my granddaughter, who's now 22 and I wanted to spend some time before she married and had kids.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, sure, sure. You've been in Oak Ridge about little less than half your life I guess, something like that. Over the years.
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative). I've kept in touch, I still have my best friend who's here. Two of my really best friends, all the way through high school are here and we've remained, we go to all the weddings and everything of all of our kids. We stay very close. I've kept up with everything that's gone on in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. I understand, understand. You said you've been back here about five years. I imagine you're active and involved in things? 
MRS. SCROGGS: I'm involved.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's talk about that a little bit.
MRS. SCROGGS: With the Rotary Club of Oak Ridge and I'm on the board of ORCMA, Oak Ridge Civic Music Association. What else?
MR. MCDANIEL: Pilot club?
MRS. SCROGGS: No, not yet. In fact, I used to be a joiner and used to have my finger in everything. Since I retired, I don't want to have so much [crosstalk].
MR. MCDANIEL: But you did that before. 
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: You did all that before.
MRS. SCROGGS: I did all of that. I was in ... when I lived in Tulsa, I was with the chamber, I was with Theater Tulsa, I was chairman of their ... 75th anniversary committee. I can't tell you all the things I was in. With the church, we had a huge church, by the way I've joined, you'd hate to hear this but at Church Street Methodist in Knoxville.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh (affirmative), okay. To each their own, whatever.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, good church.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. You were in Tulsa 25 years, it that what you said?
MRS. SCROGGS: 35.
MR. MCDANIEL: 35 years. My sister has been in Broken Arrow probably about 40 years or so.
MRS. SCROGGS: I love Broken Arrow, it's really growing so much.
MR. MCDANIEL: She just retired a couple years ago as school teacher. She's been out there .. It says, here and you didn't mention this in your Oak Ridge work history in your bio form that I'm holding in my hand, it said you worked at JC Penney.
MRS. SCROGGS: I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: When was that?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh Lord, that must have been when I was first married and he was on a mission somewhere in the service and I came back.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you couldn't be with him, right.
MRS. SCROGGS: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, so right after high school, probably.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: You worked at JC Penney, what'd you do there?
MRS. SCROGGS: Keith Funkhauser, he was, I think one of the first managers at JC Penney's.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was his name?
MRS. SCROGGS: Keith Funkhauser.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, alright.
MRS. SCROGGS: One of the first jobs I had there, is I dressed up as an Asian lady and I did sampling of this particular perfume that had just been released.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: You couldn't get away with that now, could you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Not hardly. Not hardly.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, not hardly.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I used to enjoy that kind of thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.
MRS. SCROGGS: Then at Conley E. Morris, you've never heard of that but it was an upscale dress shop, I was the accountant.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you? Was that in the shopping center?
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, alright. Let's talk about, a little bit about ... I know we talked a little bit about what life was like here growing up but let's talk a little bit more about it. Were there ... you said your father was frugal, I guess, to say the least.
MRS. SCROGGS: To say the least.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you all go out to eat very much as a family?
MRS. SCROGGS: The only time we did, he did all the books for Davis Brother's cafeteria. He got free meals. He started gaining a lot of weight.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now Davis Brother's, where was that?
MRS. SCROGGS: Downtown.
MR. MCDANIEL: Downtown Shopping Center, wasn't it.
MRS. SCROGGS: Very popular because, well everybody likes cafeterias especially when you get up a certain age. Oak Ridgers like to save money, I don't know if you know that.
MR. MCDANIEL: I do.
MRS. SCROGGS: It was high quality food at a reasonable price. We wound up eating there when I came back here, we ate there quite a bit with the kids and they learned how to behave themselves. That's really the only time that we ate out.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because your dad got free meals.
MRS. SCROGGS: Free meals.
MR. MCDANIEL: What else was down in the shopping center? Tell me about that, what can you remember, what shops were there you go aorund?
MRS. SCROGGS: The Cloth Shop, Woolworth’s.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was McCrory’s there?
MRS. SCROGGS: I don't remember whether it was McCrory’s or Woolworth’s. Both of them, I can't remember which one.
MR. MCDANIEL: Uh-huh (affirmative).
MRS. SCROGGS: I think there was a bakery.
MR. MCDANIEL: Federal Bakery. I remember that.
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
MR. MCDANIEL: Loveman's, was it Loveman's at that time? Or Miller's?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, Loveman's moved from Jackson Square.
MR. MCDANIEL: Jackson Square.
MRS. SCROGGS: They were at Jackson Square for a while and then Music Box was on the corner in Jackson Square. Another thing in Jackson Square was Jackson Hardware and they were close friends of Mother and Dad's until they died.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, it was there forever.
MR. MCDANIEL: Weren't they ... wasn't the hardware ... it turned into a sports, fishing and sports.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, that was on the stretch now that's the ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Jacobs.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Where was the hardware store?
MRS. SCROGGS: It was-
MR. MCDANIEL: In Jackson Square?
MRS. SCROGGS: No, it was in the square.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. On the end of the square where that little deli is now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, yeah, Razzleberry's.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, Razzleberry's. That's where Jackson Hardware was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, that's where Jackson Hardware was.
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Things about being in Oak Ridge early, early, one of the things was, obviously one of the things that is primary on my mind is the clay and the mud because we had to learnt to roller skate on boardwalks. Can you imagine roller skating on boardwalks?
MR. MCDANIEL: Bumper to bumper to bump, wouldn't it?
MRS. SCROGGS: Exactly.
MR. MCDANIEL: These are roller skates that you put on the bottom of your shoes?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: You strap them on with the key.
MRS. SCROGGS: You had a skate key, yeah. In fact, I busted out one of my front teeth, I carried a key around my neck and I never could be still and so if I was talking to somebody, I was whirling that key around. Anyway. We couldn't play hopscotch because you couldn't draw on the ... then I just, not really until I came back this time and I've been to all of the events that have celebrated Oak Ridge in the early days have I really and truly appreciated my mother.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: And all that she went through trying to raise us in those conditions.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, they talk about the coal, because you burn coal to heat and to cook and all that kind of stuff. It was just, the walls would just get this grimy, black dust on it where you lived. The smoke would just kind of hang low across the street, because everybody was burning it.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. But I could never, ever, ever remember my mother complaining about anything. Ever. I started to say something about the coal.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's alright.
MRS. SCROGGS: It went away.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's okay, that's alright. I was going to ask you, were you there, were you at the parade that they had on May 9th, 1949, where they opened the gates to the city.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, can you remember anything about that?
MRS. SCROGGS: I honestly can't. I remember being here. I was 10. I was old enough, it had to be a big deal.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, it was a big deal, it was a big deal. 
MRS. SCROGGS: Opening the gates, I remember ... what was not a terrible, big deal for me is when they incorporated. I heard they incorporated but I thought, "Okay." I don't know when that was but- 
MR. MCDANIEL: It was 1960.
MRS. SCROGGS: It just didn't make a big deal.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. I understand. 
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, when they opened the gates, that was a big deal. I don't remember the parade.
MR. MCDANIEL: You don't remember the parade. Vice President came and spoke and they had movie stars in the parade.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, I remember that, I remember that they had movie stars.
MR. MCDANIEL: I made a movie about that, so I'll get you a copy of it and let you watch a little 30 minute film...
MRS. SCROGGS: Good, thank you.
MR. MCDANIEL: …called Operation Open Sesame. It's got film footage from the parade and people talking about it.
MRS. SCROGGS: Good, I might even be in it, who knows.
MR. MCDANIEL: You might be. You never know. You never know. Tell me a little bit about working at ORTEC and Tennelec.
MRS. SCROGGS: Working at ORTEC was the most exciting time of my life, because you knew that you were kind of cutting edge. Everything we did was exciting. 
MR. MCDANIEL: What did ORTEC do?
MRS. SCROGGS: We manufactured scientific research instrumentation, normally for research in universities. It wasn't for defense or anything like that. It was pretty insipid.  I enjoyed most being in sales because I kind of became a conduit for the customer between the customer and the engineer. Because I learned enough about the instruments and what they were capable of doing. I didn't know all of the ins and outs but I knew this instrument could do this. When a customer called in and they had a problem, the person on the switchboard could call me and at least I knew which engineer to send to. I could troubleshoot it enough to know and that really made me happy.
MR. MCDANIEL: I worked with some of those types of people and they, the customer needed someone between them and the engineer, didn't they?
MRS. SCROGGS: They did, it saved so much of the engineer’s time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MRS. SCROGGS: I even, when I was at Tennelec, I was sent out to San Diego on a trade show. I had the equipment shipped out there, on my own, even though I didn't know how the equipment worked, I mean I did know how it worked. I didn't know why it worked the way it did. I set up the equipment and ran the show by myself.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yep.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MRS. SCROGGS: Pretty big deal.
MR. MCDANIEL: It is a pretty big deal.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yep. Then I met with all of the salesmen from the coast, California coast. Anyway, Tennelec was exciting but didn't really stay there, we stayed there a year. ORTEC was just ... It was like being a part of, how could you describe it?
MR. MCDANIEL: Well it was new and it was exciting and it was just part of that technology transfer from the Lab.
MRS. SCROGGS: Most to the people were about the same age and the people that graduated from ORTEC, were people like Terry Douglas and Ron Moot and they started the proton therapy. When you can think of those people that were just kids, upstarts, had these kind of brains, we didn't know that. They were just ... It's just so awe inspiring.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MRS. SCROGGS: For people to tell me, "You married one of the smartest people we've ever known," because he did have that kind of a brain. It's just incredible.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow, what was your husband's name?
MRS. SCROGGS: Bob Scroggs.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. Alright. I guess your mother and father are both gone, yeah. What happened to your brother?
MRS. SCROGGS: He just died.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did he?
MRS. SCROGGS: Just last year, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did he do with his-
MRS. SCROGGS: He was an accountant.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh my goodness, where?
MRS. SCROGGS: He was all over. He was with some big firms and then he finally started a CPA [Certified Public Accountant] firm in Arlington Texas.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, alright.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, he died way too early. I was really angry with him because he didn't fight enough. I'm such a fighter.
MR. MCDANIEL: Are you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Mother was a fighter.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was he younger than you?
MRS. SCROGGS: No, five years older.
MR. MCDANIEL: He was five years older, that's right.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. Anyway.
MR. MCDANIEL: What's your life been like the last five years here back in Oak Ridge? What's different?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh gosh.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me what's different now than it was when you remember being a kid.
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh my.
MR. MCDANIEL: I mean there's physical changes, obviously to the town. Is the sense of community still the same or do you think it's different?
MRS. SCROGGS: No, no. I knew it wasn't going to be the same. It's been harder for me to become a part of Oak Ridge than I was expecting.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really? How come? How?
MRS. SCROGGS: I know if I had become ... I think I was away too long. The thing about, I not only was away but I became so ensconced in the culture of a large city and in all of their different, like the opera company and the ballet company and all this, that's the kind of people I hung with. I haven't really been accepted. When I joined ORCMA, I think that has helped a lot. Those people, I think I can really relate to. Of course, Rotary Club has helped a lot. I just haven't clicked with anybody other than my old friends. I haven't developed close relationships, which has made it a little lonely.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure. And the powers that be now, are the next generation. Not the generation or two behind you.
MRS. SCROGGS: Exactly.
MR. MCDANIEL: It's a different-
MRS. SCROGGS: You cannot go there at all.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure.
MRS. SCROGGS: That's what you could expect.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true. Especially moving away and coming back. If you were here your whole life there's a sense-
MRS. SCROGGS: And you've been here consistently.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, there's a sense of respect and admiration for the older generation, even though they may not be in power anymore.
MRS. SCROGGS: Right, [crosstalk] and everything. One of the interesting, and I chuckle when I think about it, people remember my mother. It just thrills me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because she was so involved.
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh so involved and so loved.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really.
MRS. SCROGGS: People will say, "You wouldn't have to tell me who you were if I didn't know, because you just remind us so much of her," it just thrills me to death.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well good.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: What else do you want to talk about? What else do you want to tell me?
MRS. SCROGGS: Well I'm still very proud to be an Oak Ridger. I'm very proud of what Oak Ridge has accomplished. I'm very proud that they are proposing to change the name of Pellissippi Parkway, because I think we deserve to have something that we can recognize. Not only us, but even on up Pellissippi Parkway to Maryville. We have a lot of scientific development going on. The 3D printing and on and on and on and we need to be recognized when people coming from other places, they see Pellissippi Parkway, that doesn't mean anything.
MR. MCDANIEL: That doesn't mean anything, does it.
MRS. SCROGGS: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: What were people's reactions in Tulsa, when they asked you where you came from? Did they know anything?
MRS. SCROGGS: They didn't have a clue.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did they know anything about Oak Ridge?
MRS. SCROGGS: They didn't have a clue. Not a clue.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really.
MRS. SCROGGS: When I finally brought the video and showed it to some of my intellectual friends that were really seeking to know, they were just blown away.
MR. MCDANIEL: What video?
MRS. SCROGGS: The Secret City.
MR. MCDANIEL: Secret City, the Oak Ridge story?
MRS. SCROGGS: And they wanted to come, they wanted to come visit.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well good. You know who made that movie?
MRS. SCROGGS: Mm-mmm (negative).
MR. MCDANIEL: Me.
MRS. SCROGGS: Did you really?
MR. MCDANIEL: I wrote and directed Secret City, The Oak Ridge story.
MRS. SCROGGS: Wow, wow, wow, wow.
MR. MCDANIEL: I was a documentary filmmaker for the last 20 something years.
MRS. SCROGGS: Well, you done good.
MR. MCDANIEL: Thank you very much, I appreciate that.
MRS. SCROGGS: It really, it really has attracted so many people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Once they heard about it, they were interested, weren't they?
MRS. SCROGGS: They were. Seeking more information, wanting to know more.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. SCROGGS: Even people that when their wives brought that home, they thought, "Yeah, Phyllis brought that." Once they saw it, they were believers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well good, that's great. Alright, well I appreciate you taking time to talk to me this afternoon, is there anything else you want to talk about while we're here?
MRS. SCROGGS: Not really.
MR. MCDANIEL: Not really?
MRS. SCROGGS: I want to see if Tennessee can whip those Alabamans. We're going to roll right over Alabama today.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is there a game tonight?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, well I think it's during the day, it's basketball.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah. They're doing well.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, well good.
MRS. SCROGGS: That's another thing, see Tulsa's a big football and big sports town. With OSU [Oklahoma State University], OU [University of Oklahoma], TU [University of Texas], all of them right around, yeah, big time.
MR. MCDANIEL: I bet. You still follow the sports, huh?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah. Thunder, we got an Oklahoma City basketball, professional basketball, oh yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well good. If you had to pick between Oklahoma and Tennessee, who would it be right now?
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh, oh, Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh yeah. Well I was always a Tennessee fan.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you?
MRS. SCROGGS: Yeah, even when we went to games and my husband was Arkansas and I'd wear all orange and white and people would say, "What is this?" I'd say, "Well, intermarriage."
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right, that's exactly right. Alright, well thank you so much.
MRS. SCROGGS: Oh, you're welcome. 
MR. MCDANIEL: I appreciate it.
MRS. SCROGGS: I'm sorry I was just kind of ... couldn't remember-
MR. MCDANIEL: That's okay. That's alright, no problem.
MRS. SCROGGS: That's what the brain does.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's what it does.
[End of Interview]