Copeland, David

              
ORAL HISTORY OF DAVID COPELAND
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
March 4, 2012
 
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is March the 4th, 2012.  Is that correct?  Is today the 4th?
MR. COPELAND: I believe that's right.
MR. MCDANIEL: It is March the 4th, 2012, and I am at the home of Mr. David Copeland, and we're out in the country.  We're somewhere between Oak Ridge and Clinton, aren't we?
MR. COPELAND: Just about, yes. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Thanks, David for taking time to talk with us.
MR. COPELAND: My pleasure.
MR. MCDANIEL: I appreciate it.  Now, you were born here.  You were born in this area, weren't you?
MR. COPELAND: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: So why don't you tell me a little bit about your family and where you were born and what your family did and things such as that.
MR. COPELAND: Well, I was born in 1935.  That's a long time ago.  In Robertsville, Tennessee.  Over there is a picture of my dad on the wall, but he had a store in Robertsville.  And Robertsville, for those who don't know, was located in the Downtown - where the Downtown Shopping Center is, that area.  There was a crossroads there, and that's where the Nash Copeland's Country Store was.  And that's where I was born.  That picture of that store hangs in the museum in the Oak Ridge museum.
MR. MCDANIEL: And your dad was named -
MR. COPELAND: Nash Copeland.
MR. MCDANIEL: Nash Copeland, right.  Nash Copeland Store.
MR. COPELAND: And then my grandfather lived on the other end of town, off Emory Road, yeah, it's Emory Road that comes out at the Marina there.  He owned farmland through there, going up towards what we used to call Elza Gate.  We went there and went to grade school at Scarboro Elementary, which was going into the old Carbide Park area where the lake was.  UT CARL had the school, that school building sitting there.  I went to the first and second grade, first part of second grade there, and then we moved to Clinton for a long time.  And then -
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how many brothers and sisters did you have?
MR. COPELAND: I had - Mom and Dad had four children in all.  Had a sister and she died.  She's buried in one of the cemeteries there off of Emory Road.  And then I have an older brother and a younger brother, and the older brother, Bob, lives in Harriman, in that area, down on the lake there.  And the younger brother, William, Bill, lives in Pearl River, Louisiana, right there at Slidell going into New Orleans.  He spent most of lot of time there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did he?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: But your dad had the store and you were born here and you said the second part of your second grade is when you all moved to Clinton.
MR. COPELAND: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what year was that?
MR. COPELAND: That would have been 19 and 42, when they came in here.
MR. MCDANIEL: 1942.  That was when they came in here.  
MR. COPELAND: That's when they came in here.  They came in and all just as I remember the story as a youngster being -
MR. MCDANIEL: And we'll talk about that in a minute.  But your dad had the - How long did he have the store?  Because that's kind of an icon photo.
MR. COPELAND: Well, I was born in the house that was next to the store, so that was 1935, so I know it was up until '42.  That's at least seven years, whether it's - younger brother was born in '33, but he also lived in the area, down there where my grandfather lived, on that street, he and mom lived there.  Then, they had an old oak tree that they cut down.  There was a story, years ago, about he and mom and onto that big tree and they were going to cut it because they were cutting it down because it blew down or whatever.  And he always said, "Yeah, it was next to the outhouse, but I don't think that helped it grow that bad."  [Laughter]
MR. MCDANIEL: That's funny.  Now, did your mom - was your mom from this area?
MR. COPELAND: Mom was from Fountain City.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, was she?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, she lived over there.  In fact, my grandfather, way before I came in the picture, ran for office in Knoxville as a - gee, what - I forgot the office that he ran for.  But I.C. King was his opponent.  The first year, I.C. King ran for him and my grandfather beat him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah.  Used to have a way, Bill, he made dad, as a youngster, carry around the next door and hand them out to get votes a little different than the way they do it now [Laughter].
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, sure.  But so in '42, you were in second grade, and that's when you all had to move to Clinton.  Tell me a little bit about what you remember, or what your Mom and Dad told you about what happened.
MR. COPELAND: Well, it seemed like the government came in, like in August of that year, and says, "You will be moving out of here, no questions asked.  You got to be gone by Thanksgiving."  So, Thanksgiving is when we moved and just picked up and go.  We didn't have long to get rid of this merchandise.  It was in his store or to sell out - It's not - It's just get out the best way you can, but you going be out of here by then.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, the house was next to the store, right?
MR. COPELAND: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: You lived next to the store?
MR. COPELAND: Right.  And so we moved to Clinton and he established a business in Clinton.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did he?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, right where the old -- next to where the -- across from the courthouse there on the corner.  I think the bank sets there now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, the big bank.
MR. COPELAND: Used to be had two tire retreading shops there.  And then, when MSI, who run everything in Oak Ridge at that time, I think, he came back and got the first contract to open a business in Oak Ridge as a privately owned business.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Oh, yeah, he opened that on the corner of Arkansas and Turnpike.  There was a service station there and it was - gee, I forget what he called that.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, Arkansas.  Is that where the Rocky Top is?  Or is that -
MR. COPELAND: There's a Rocky Top sits there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, Rocky Top sits there.
MR. COPELAND: Sits there now, but the whole corner there was big Esso station he had, and I worked there and learned to drive a car by backing the car off the car wash.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? [Laughter]
MR. COPELAND: Yes.  I did that.  And an interesting story on washing cars that I did in the summertime, back in those days, they had Hudsons, you know great old big old Hudsons, had to step down into that Hudson.  One of them was owned by Barney Oldfield.  Barney Oldfield, for those who don't know, was an Indy race driver.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, he won the Indy 500 and had an Oldfield tire named Oldfield - the Oldfield tire.  But he came in and he worked at the plant and a lot of people didn't know that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh really?  I did not know that.
MR. COPELAND: And so I used to wash his car, and he'd always fuss at the job I did, but he always gave me a $0.25 tip, so that was a lot of money to a kid.  In '46, it was a whole lot.  [Laughter]
MR. MCDANIEL: Hey, let's go back to '42.  So, you all moved to Clinton.  Do you remember how much your dad got for his store and the house and everything?  
MR. COPELAND: As I recall in my memory, I think they wound up finally with an offer they had $6,000.00 for.  He had 11, 10, 11 acres there, which is would encompass a lot of what the shopping center's on.  And he had the store and had built - Had two houses on it.  He built it up.  That's what he had in it when he bought it.  Then he made all those improvements, and so that really took it away from him when they - Of course, they went to court, and they didn't get the land.  We had to go to land courts back in those days, and you always lost.  The government won, so that's all they got out of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Can you imagine what that 10 or 11 acres would be worth today?
MR. COPELAND: Well, I know that Mr. Glazer didn't pay a lot for it when he bought the whole shopping center. [Laughter]
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true, but it's -
MR. COPELAND: But today, I think the people that own that asking four, five, six million dollars for the property.
MR. MCDANIEL: At least, at least that much.  And three years ago, it would've been worth three times that, wouldn't it? [Laughter]
MR. COPELAND: Oh, yeah, that's truth.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh my goodness.  So you moved to Clinton and your dad came back and opened the Esso station there.  And you worked there as a teenager.
MR. COPELAND: In the summertime.
MR. MCDANIEL: In the summer.
MR. COPELAND: And then, he also, probably a couple years later, that would probably have been '44, somewhere in the neighborhood, probably about '46, he opened what was Ridge Auto and Home Supply at the time, and a place where the old municipal market building was.
MR. MCDANIEL: I don't know where that was.  Where was it?
MR. COPELAND: That was located - gee, what's there now?  A CVS?  Right there on -
MR. MCDANIEL: Where that turn is.
MR. COPELAND: Going into the Shopping Center.  There was sort of more right there than it was, because it was - it was back of that curve a little bit, cause that curve is the original curve, so there used to be a sawmill right in there, I remember, as a kid.  And he had sold BF Goodrich tires with a Thor automatic washer when people had to buy their own, and TV was first coming into being in the area.  We'd put one in the house, and he'd run out and couldn't get another one.  And he'd sell that one.  [Laughter]
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what was the name of the store?
MR. COPELAND: Ridge Auto and Home Supply, which was a prerequisite to probably Copeland Auto Supply, which we later had in Grove Center.
MR. MCDANIEL: But he sold auto and home supplies?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, auto and home supplies, tires, batteries, bicycles.
MR. MCDANIEL: Probably kind of a precursor to like a Western Auto.
MR. COPELAND: Oh, yeah.  Oh, yeah.  Yeah.  It was called Auto and Home, and that's what he had.  Sold appliances, refrigerators.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did he have this at the same time he had the service station?
MR. COPELAND: Yes, yes he did.  And then about 1948, we moved to Sarasota, Florida, and he kept those businesses.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, we moved to Sarasota, Florida, where he and mom built a tourist court.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah.  And Sarasota on the Trail.
MR. MCDANIEL: He was quite the visionary, wasn't he?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, he was.  And I went to high school, first for three years I went to school there.  And then, it became necessary for him to come back to the store and run that and he had to come back when I went to Oak Ridge High School my junior and senior year in high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: I guess, it was kind of tough to leave a business in somebody else's hands and make sure everything goes -
MR. COPELAND: It was that far away.  That was a long time, because you didn't fly.  You had to drive.  That was a hard way down highway 41.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you graduated from Oak Ridge High School in what year?
MR. COPELAND: In 1953.  Class of '53.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when y'all came back, where did you live?
MR. COPELAND: On Purdue Avenue, on 27 South Purdue Avenue.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you moved back into Oak Ridge?
MR. COPELAND: Right, yes.  And then, later on, after I left, they bought a house up on West Outer, but that's -
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did they?
MR. COPELAND: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, all right.  Now, how long did he have his businesses?  The service station and the auto and home store?
MR. COPELAND: Gee.  All my life.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. COPELAND: Oh, yeah, because he was in business when I was born, and he was in business when I came back to Oak Ridge.  We left.  I left Oak Ridge, and then I came back in 1970, and he decided he wanted to retire at that time, and I took over his business somewhere in the early ‘70s, as he stayed there and made sure I knew what I was supposed to be doing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Knew what you were doing? [Laughter]
MR. COPELAND: Course, he was always in and out.  Even at that.  But so, he was there, yeah, until he died.  He was 91 years old when he died.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?  And what year was that?
MR. COPELAND: In 1996.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, '96, wow.  So, he was born in '05?
MR. COPELAND: '05, yes he was.  He died the day after his 91st birthday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Yes, he did.
MR. MCDANIEL: So anyway, so let's go back.  You said that then you came back and graduated high school, and then what did you do?  Did you go to college or did you join the service?
MR. COPELAND: Well, I played that summer, and then that fall I went to the University of Tennessee, and then played for nine months [Laughter].
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?  Oh, I see.
MR. COPELAND: And then I joined the Navy in 1954, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: You figured you probably needed a little more - 
MR. COPELAND: Maturity?
MR. MCDANIEL: Maturity or discipline or something, didn't you?  So you joined the Navy in '54?
MR. COPELAND: Yes, I did.  And I didn't get to stay there long, because I had a heart murmur and they gave me a medical discharge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, I never got to boot camp even.  And I did everything I could to stay, but nothing worked, so they sent me off and I came back and went to work for the BF Goodrich Tire Company, over in Maryville - Alcoa actually, right at the end of the runway at the Airport, and that's where I met Jonny, my wife.  And we were married then in 19 and 55.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.  And where were you living when you came back?  Were you living in Maryville?
MR. COPELAND: When I came back, yeah, I stayed with mom and dad until – But, then I had a room that I stayed in over in Maryville.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. COPELAND: Yes, during the week anyway.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when you and Jonny got married, where did you all settle?
MR. COPELAND: We lived at her mom and dad's there in Louisville for about three or four months, and then I was transferred in my job to Gainesville, Georgia.  And that's where my daughter, Terri, was born.  And then we moved to Dalton, Georgia, and that's where our son, David Junior was born.  Then, we moved to Crossville, Tennessee, and that's where Jean, our third child was born.  Then, we moved to Athens, and that's where Mark, our fourth child was born.  So, we found out everything must have been in the city water, so, we were careful after that.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then you eventually came back to Oak Ridge, you said in '70?  '72?
MR. COPELAND: '70, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: 1970.  And you came back to take over your dad's store.
MR. COPELAND: That's correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did he still have the Esso station at the time?
MR. COPELAND: No, no, that had all gone away.  And then we just had the auto parts.  We were, in fact, Napa Auto Parts, at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then so you sort of took over the store?
MR. COPELAND: Oh, yes, I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then you had - And were you at the same location?
MR. COPELAND: Yes, right in - Well, the building still stands there, which some doctors have a storage facility and a records storage or something there in Grove Center.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, in Grove Center.  Yeah, yeah.  Right there.  
MR. COPELAND: And so I closed the store, sold it in '92.  The business, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, and retired?
MR. COPELAND: And retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: From work anyway.
MR. COPELAND: Well, I quit. [Laughter]
MR. MCDANIEL: I understand.
MR. COPELAND: People ask me if I retired, I say, "No, I didn't have any benefit program.  I just quit." [Laughter]
MR. MCDANIEL: You just quit.  I understand.  So, what was it like, coming and going from Oak Ridge for all those years?  I mean, you started in Oak Ridge and you came and went, came and went.
MR. COPELAND: It's sort of like coming home again, but I enjoyed the time that I had in Sarasota, because that was just a good growing up time and a lot of learning to do things.  Then, I came back here for two years, and then I moved away again, and so we had a great experience, and knowing other people, and I was in sales for a long time, and I worked for the BF Goodrich Company for about 17 years.  And traveled for them.
MR. MCDANIEL: And when you came back and took over the business, tell me.  So you did that for 20 years plus.
MR. COPELAND: Just about, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: And so, you're a local businessman.  What was Oak Ridge like, to be an independent business person?
MR. COPELAND: It was very hard.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it?
MR. COPELAND: Yes, it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that.
MR. COPELAND: Well, to be in business in Oak Ridge, people, back in those times - business was a lot different.  You had to be service oriented, and people are not particularly that way anymore, that I've found anyway.  But we travel.  We sold auto parts to the service stations and garages, to the individuals, and they fixed this, and they were always looking for better prices.  Always said the next man had a better price, or you know.  But we were still successful and the good Lord was good to us and we were able to quit as I did.  But to be in business was highly competitive.  There were about four or five parts stores.  The population was about the same as it is now, because it hasn't grown that much.  And consequently, a lot of people like to go to Knoxville to buy.  They still do.  That's where everybody you look at today and there's no retail business much to amount to anything in Oak Ridge anymore.  They're just not there.  They go to Knoxville.
MR. MCDANIEL: And there's very, almost no independent retail business in Oak Ridge.
MR. COPELAND: None at all.  And the city government makes it hard, too.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do they?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah.  It was hard.  I tried to rent the building for some people, because they didn't like the tire business.  They made it a little tough, but I see other things.  What's good for you is not good for them [Laughter] so they can get by.  So, we had some dissention along those lines, but we were always involved in the community.  I was on the Chamber of Commerce board of directors for a while.  My wife worked at the bank, Bank of Oak Ridge Commerce Union, all the way up to where it went to.  So we were just part of the community, which I think you have to be.
MR. MCDANIEL: But it was tough.
MR. COPELAND: Oh, it was tough, yeah, it was tough.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now did the fact that the plants and such - did you have any direct benefit from that?  I mean were you able to get contracts with them?
MR. COPELAND: Well, yeah, I got to do business with the plants.  I was never able to win the contract for it, but I did get to sell them stuff, because we had stuff that was available in our line of business they couldn't get as quickly, and we had it.  If we didn't have it, we could have it for you the next morning.  We could service them a lot, so we got some business on the outside of that contract.  We did business with the City, the garages.  We had quite a bit.  So we got some business from those people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.  And I guess - And you all were strictly auto parts at that point, is that correct?
MR. COPELAND: That's right, too.  We had an automotive machine shop, too.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, where we'd recondition cylinder heads and blocks and turn - brake rotor drums, resurface cylinder heads, put bearings together.  And summertime, __ people's lawnmower blades, if they hit a rock.  Yeah, we used to have one of those.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I guess you just had to do just about everything, didn't you?
MR. COPELAND: Back in those days, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: To survive.
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, we did.
MR. MCDANIEL: There's not much of that type of work going on anymore.  
MR. COPELAND: Not much.  Well, it's more or less.  I used my Bushog today, if I bend the blade I got to take it to Clinton, the machine shop where I bought it.  They do that, so they do their stuff not like used to be.  Because not a lot of shade trees.  People used to be able to fix their own cars and take the cylinder heads off, bring them to us, and we'd do the machine work and they'd go back and put them on.
MR. MCDANIEL: People don't do that anymore, do they?
MR. COPELAND: Not much.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Not much?
MR. COPELAND: Well, I got to say this.  American automobiles or any of them are better engines today than they were in those days.  You don't have as much problem.  Then, the dealers get a lot of business coming back when they - on modern cars, too, because it's highly technical.  Everything's technical.
MR. MCDANIEL: It's all computerized -
MR. COPELAND: Learn how to text on a telephone or do all the iPads and all this.  Gets beyond me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh [Laughter].  You know, it's so funny, I use - I kind of ended up using Chuck down at the end of town for our vehicles.  Chuck Hope's a good guy.  I bought this little Mercedes about three years ago, and people asked me, "How can a documentary filmmaker afford a Mercedes?"  And I'm like, "If you remember, in February of '09, they were practically giving cars away." [Laughter]
MR. COPELAND: Oh, yeah.  
MR. MCDANIEL: So, but the thing I found out is the difference every time I run over a screw, it costs me $300.00 for a new tire! [Laughter]
MR. COPELAND: That's right.  That's exactly right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then Dana, she took the boys last year to the Ice Bears and ran over a new curb that they had just built in Knoxville, and busted two tires and bent two wheels on that Mercedes.
MR. COPELAND: Oh, that cost you a pretty penny.
MR. MCDANIEL: That cost me a pretty penny.  But anyway, it's – But, I guess, seeing that is Chuck, he's somebody local.  I'd rather deal with somebody local, and because he is local, I know him.  I trust him.  I guess that -
MR. COPELAND: That has a lot to do with it.  We used to sell Chuck parts.  His dad was more there than young Chuck was at some times.
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.  So, anyway, so you - Adjust the camera just a hair.  There we go.  So you retired.  
MR. COPELAND: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Or quit, as you say.  Did it just get to - Why did you quit?  Were you just ready?
MR. COPELAND: Got tired.  Yeah, I got very, very tired, and no vacations, nothing.
MR. MCDANIEL: How old were you?
MR. COPELAND: 59 years old.  58, I guess.  57.  Well, whatever, born in '35, '92 I quit.  
MR. MCDANIEL: But you didn't have, being an independent business person, you didn't have any vacations.
MR. COPELAND: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: You always had responsibility.
MR. COPELAND: That's right.  It was seven days a week, and when you're in business for yourself, it's seven days a week.  Nobody to help you make a profit line, except yourself.  That's what our government today didn't realize [Laughter] but they - But we enjoyed - No vacations, no time off, couldn't go anywhere.  And, consequently, since then, we've traveled a great deal.  Then, I got - My kids got me involved in the Playhouse.  And I did a little show called Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.  And I played Big Daddy, and that -
MR. MCDANIEL: That name stuck, hasn't it?
MR. COPELAND: It has, it has.  
MR. MCDANIEL: I told my wife I was coming to do your interview, and she says, "Oh, Big Daddy!"
MR. COPELAND: That's right!
MR. MCDANIEL: That's exactly right.  
MR. COPELAND: And but we have - I remember going through that.  It was real challenging, and I enjoyed it very much.  Did two or three plays at the Playhouse.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, you've done several.
MR. COPELAND: And served on the board of directors of the Playhouse.  And then I decided.
MR. MCDANIEL: And Terri's the director.  She's involved for years and years, and now she's directing.
MR. COPELAND: Yes.  She's been there.  David Junior was even in some plays.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, he was there. 
MR. COPELAND: We just been there a long time.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then you did October Sky when it came on.
MR. COPELAND: Yes, I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: You had a speaking role in that movie.
MR. COPELAND: There was only four speaking roles of local talent.  As I recall they told me.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was you.  I know it was you and Donald Thorn.  Donald Thorn.
MR. COPELAND: Principal who was the Principal.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, Donald was the state trooper.
MR. COPELAND: Oh, okay.
MR. MCDANIEL: I remember that.
MR. COPELAND: And the other two.
MR. MCDANIEL: I don't remember.
MR. COPELAND: I remember we spent a whole day shooting over at Ollock Central High School in Knoxville, is where we did the football deal, and it was all day long, and this little old -
MR. MCDANIEL: And you played the football coach.
MR. COPELAND: Right.  Jake Gyllenhall was Homer, and he was just a kid then, and look where he is now, Brokeback Mountain and all these other big movies he's done.  
MR. MCDANIEL: What was that like?
MR. COPELAND: It was just a lot of fun, yeah.  Just fun.  Never did - In fact, I still see a little check now and then from October Sky.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, I get a little few residuals from that.  Not much, but it's fun to get it just for the heck of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, sure, I'm sure.  And then I'm sure it's nice every once in a while, turn on the TV, and there it is.
MR. COPELAND: And there it is.  Well, of course, I have a copy of it [Laughter].  
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course, but, well, good.  Tell me a little bit about your kids.  Now, Terri, she's here, local.
MR. COPELAND: She's here, local.  She's married.  She got married last February a year ago.
MR. MCDANIEL: She was kind of like my sister.  She never been married before, had she?  
MR. COPELAND: No, no, Terri's 55 years old.
MR. MCDANIEL: She got married about 50 was it, something like that?
MR. COPELAND: Terri? No.  Last year.  She was 55.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh is that right?  That's right, that's right.  I have a sister who didn't get married until she was 49 or 50, something like that.  And she got married, yeah.
MR. COPELAND: But she's very, very happy and she's so involved, still in the Playhouse.  She's involved in the church.  She's just happy as a lark.  Totally.  Great personality.
MR. MCDANIEL: Good for her.
MR. COPELAND: Oh, and she's working down at the ORNL now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh is she?  I knew she was at another business for a long, long time.
MR. COPELAND: Right, atomic -
MR. MCDANIEL: Science or atomic something.
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, something.  I forgotten exactly what it was, but then David Junior, he's married, lives in Clinton.  He works for Grayson Pontiac over at Knoxville, and he just recently remarried.  He got married on my birthday, in fact, October 29th of last year.  And then Jane lives in Gallatin, Tennessee.  Her husband's in insurance business, a family insurance business.  They live there and she had one child, which is our grandson, who recently got married.  They all grow up and make us old people.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you've only got one grandchild, don't you?
MR. COPELAND: Well, I actually have another granddaughter that lives out in Washington.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, David Junior’s daughter.  We don't see her much, though.
MR. MCDANIEL: And then Mark, Mark was a -
MR. COPELAND: Mark was a photographer.  He worked for Channel 6.  Well, he actually worked for Channel 7, was it?  Oak Ridge _ _7?  Yeah.  And then he -
MR. MCDANIEL: He graduated Oak Ridge High School.
MR. COPELAND: He graduated Oak Ridge High School.  Quit football in his last year and says, "I don't like doing it.  I want to quit."  I says, "Well, if you don't like doing it, then you ought to quit."  He joined - wanted to take TV class, and he did, and got a part time job at Channel 7.  Went from there, after he graduated from high school, and went to Channel 6.  Worked his way up from the studio to the news department and became chief photographer at Channel 6.  Left there and went to WRAL in Raleigh, North Carolina, and was in - He had an illustrious career.  He went to Saudi Arabia.
MR. MCDANIEL: He covered the first Gulf War, didn't he?
MR. COPELAND: Gulf War, yes he did.  He was the first independent news team that finally got in to that - Of course, the networks were there.  CNN was all there, but he got in there.  When the SCUD attacks happened, he'd been back on his second tour, and he was supposed to fly out the next day.  Fly home.  He'd been there about a week.  And the SCUD missiles came, and ain't nobody leaving in no airplanes going anywhere, so they put him down in an air raid shelter, and he said he had enough of that.  So he went topside.  He called his mother on the telephone, which was probably about 3:00 AM, 4:00 AM, 5:00 AM, his time, whatever it was.  We just got up.  He said, "Hi, Mom," told a little bit about the SCUDS.  And he was watching CNN, and then he threw this tape in, even though he worked for LAR.  He got permission to put it in the pool, because he wanted to have something, you know, in the pool.  He doesn't get credit for it, but it's there, but everybody saw it.  And it was when the SCUD missiles came in and the only shot - people were running for cover and doing helter-skelter, from here to there.  It was the only shot that they ever had on any of the things of people scurrying around, and every news station all used it as their lead in to Saudi Arabia.  So, he was proud that he got that, but then we were - unfortunately, we lost him, about five years ago, this September, in Sarasota, Florida.  He was a freelance photographer and doing a piece for Power Boat Magazine.  He was in a helicopter, and they were shooting this speedboat.  Speedboat accelerates, hits the helicopter. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah, because the helicopter - they were only about 10 or 12 feet.  Hit the skids the helicopter and the chopper crashed.  There was two photographers, Mark on this video, and had a still photographer in there.  And then the pilot.  The pilot's the only one that survived.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. COPELAND: Killed both photographers, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, you said that they had - and the High School now.  Tell me about that.
MR. COPELAND: There was a memorial for Mark, if you want to, in lieu of flowers or anything.  They donated to this memorial for Mark at the High School.  And I think they bought some computer equipment.  They were going to put a plaque up, whether they did, I've never followed up.
MR. MCDANIEL: As a part of the new High School?
MR. COPELAND: As a part of the new High School, yes.  Because that was where he got his start, and what it was, and he would have liked that.
MR. MCDANIEL: He would have liked that?  Well, good.  Well, anything else you want to talk about?  Anything else I hadn't asked you?  Now's the time to do it, this is going to go in the archives, it'll be around a lot longer than you will.
MR. COPELAND: It's too bad.  It's too bad it didn't do this when dad was alive, because he could really tell some stories, and if you look at the Heartland series, he'd been interviewed several times on that.  He talked about the lady who had the little shack and didn't have anything, but she had to leave, too.  Where to go and things to do - lot of stories that came out of that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let me ask you - I'm sure he - How did he feel about it the rest of his life?  I mean -
MR. COPELAND: Wasn't anything he could do about it.  He always felt that for the good of the country, that something came out of it for that good and they could save the country, then he was glad to do that but not -
MR. MCDANIEL: They weren't fair.  I mean they weren't fair.
MR. COPELAND: What wasn't a fair thing today.  Of course, I got to say I guess they don't do it quite as badly as that anymore.  If TVA wants to flood some property, they got to pay a little bit more instead of just take it.  They say, "Yeah, well, just right over here."  Little run they did.  But it was - he was involved in politics, too.  My grandfather was, because he was a squire in Clinton, Justice of the Peace, and he did all those kinds of things, and always my aunt worked - dad's sister, Trula - worked at the Courthouse up there for the County Court Clerk.  I don't even remember that clerk’s name, who she works for now.  That is one long time ago, and of course they all are gone.  But dad was in the Republican Party.  In fact, it's sort of interesting.  He was chairman of the party in Anderson County.  He buys a new house, moves into his new house.  All of a sudden he says, "Uh oh."  He's ten feet inside the wrong county.  [Laughter]
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?  Oh, my goodness.
MR. COPELAND: He lived up on West Outer Drive [Laughter].
MR. MCDANIEL: Did he?  Oh, my goodness.  That's probably no different than - I heard a story, I think it was one of the first interviews I did a long time ago with Dick Smyser.  He said, "Oak Ridge was the only place," he said, "that you had the head of the Christmas Holiday Bureau named Jerry Goldberg, you know?"  [Laughter]
MR. COPELAND: Well, that's true, yeah.  
MR. MCDANIEL: A good Jewish fellow heading up the Christmas holiday program.
MR. COPELAND: Well, you know Oak Ridge was a very diverse community.  It had a lot of intelligent people, some so intelligent that they didn't have much common sense sometimes.  I hear them tell a story, guy gets lost on the way coming out of the plant, going home and he don't know which way to go [Laughter].  He just gets lost.
MR. MCDANIEL: My mother, she worked out at the Lab, and she said there were some fellows who had people assigned to them.
MR. COPELAND: To make sure they got home.
MR. MCDANIEL: To make sure they got where they were supposed to go.  I mean, they were brilliant.  They were geniuses, but you're right, they didn't have -
MR. COPELAND: They all had - They just weren't aware of their surroundings.  Very true, very true.  And things changed.  Dad had a school bus in the old days, and he drove the school bus along with it.
MR. MCDANIEL: He did just a little bit of everything, didn't he? And did he have to?  You sort of had to, to survive, I suppose.
MR. COPELAND: Well, yeah, you know he -
MR. MCDANIEL: But he wanted to, didn't he?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah.  He'd always get calls on Saturday night, "Come and get me out of jail" type thing.  Yeah.  Had what was it called?  The full moon I think.
MR. MCDANIEL: That wasn't from you, he got those calls from, was it? [Laughter]
MR. COPELAND: No, I was just a kid, but no, back before it was just plain old country before we moved, and we had a place called Full Moon best I can remember it was on the left side going towards Clinton from that store.  Everybody'd get a little tanked up and they'd always get a bunch of fights on Saturday night and everybody'd call him up, he'd always go get them out of jail.  Paid their bail or whatever.
MR. MCDANIEL: How funny.  Now, your grandfather was in politics.  Did you ever have an inkling to get into politics?
MR. COPELAND: Well, did a little bit.  Jonny's wife.  Jonny's wife?  My wife, Jonny.  Mother was a politician from the word "go".  She was with Blount County people and she's Miss Republican in Blount County.  But anyway, with that background, she became, when she and I lived in Athens, before coming back to Oak Ridge, she was involved in Richard Nixon's presidential campaign.  And the rumor goes that she got one of four invitations to the inaugural, provided she didn't come.  That's why she could get it, because there were so many people.  Been a long time since they'd had a Republican president.  But anyway, we come and then Winfield Dunn decides to run for governor our last little while that we were down there, and for some reason or other, we became very close to him at the front.  And he needed a campaign manager in McMinn County and I was that, so that was our little -
MR. MCDANIEL: Foray into politics?
MR. COPELAND: Foray into politics.  We helped elect the first Republican governor in over 50 years in Tennessee.  
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. COPELAND: Yeah.  Winfield.
MR. MCDANIEL: But when you came back to Oak Ridge, you didn't think about running for City Council or anything?
MR. COPELAND: No, no, that wasn't my forte.  I didn't have that.  I got involved in the Elk's Lodge and we did a lot of good work back in those days.  Just didn't have time.  Just didn't have time to really do it, yeah.  We'd go to Young Republican committee meetings, until that went away.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.  I heard when y'all, the Young Republicans, were meeting - I don't know where you met - the Young Democrats were meeting in the basement of the Greek restaurant and having wild parties down there [Laughter].
MR. COPELAND: I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was the name of that restaurant across from the Soup Kitchen?  Was it the -
MR. COPELAND: Right next to it was called the -
MR. MCDANIEL: It wasn't the Acropolis, it was - What was it?
MR. COPELAND: Mayflower, wasn't it?
MR. MCDANIEL: No, I'm thinking of the Greek restaurant right there, where right across from -
MR. COPELAND: Jackson Square?
MR. MCDANIEL: No, no, it was a Greek name.  I forget the name of it, I should remember it.  Dana and I went there.  It was still in operation.
MR. COPELAND: Greek in Oak Ridge?
MR. MCDANIEL: Twenty years ago, right across from the Soup Kitchen there, there's a little -
MR. COPELAND: Well, it used to be a Texaco service station.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, I mean across the street there.  I mean right across the corner there.
MR. COPELAND: Oh, on the corner?  Okay, that at one time was called the Mayflower
MR. MCDANIEL: Was that where the Mayflower was?
MR. COPELAND: Oh, yeah, that was the Mayflower.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I didn't know that's what the Mayflower was.
MR. COPELAND: And then it was whatever it was.  Yeah, I remember.  I don't remember.  I can't.
MR. MCDANIEL: I interviewed a lady once and she told me that she's heavily involved in the Democrat, and they had a basement there and they go down there and have their meetings.
MR. COPELAND: They did have a bottom floor, yeah, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was back in the late 60s early 70s.  Seemed a little hippyish to me, but it's all right.  [Laughter]
MR. COPELAND: Well, they had a lot of - The Oak Terrace used to have, which was down in Grove Center.  Friday, everybody went to the Oak Terrace for lunch.  All the bankers showed up so they could have tenderloin and little bitty drop biscuits, and they were so good.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, I'm sure, I'm sure.  All right!  Well, is there anything else you want to talk about?  Anything you want to tell me?
MR. COPELAND: No, just glad that the good Lord's let us stay out so long, and stay here and see the good things, and hope for better times, and hope we have some world peace somewhere.
MR. MCDANIEL: All right, well, thank you very much.
MR. COPELAND: Thank you for having me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.  Okay.


[End of Interview]
 
ORAL HISTORY TRANSCRIPT for
CENTER FOR OAK RIDGE ORAL HISTORY
INTERVIEWEE: DAVID COPELAND
INTERVIEWER: KEITH MCDANIEL
Date of Interview: March 4, 2012
Location of Interview: Oak Ridge, Tennessee
Videotaped by: KEITH MCDANIEL for Secret City Films