Olson, Robert (Bob)

              
ORAL HISTORY OF ROBERT (BOB) OLSON
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
May 28, 2013
 
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is May 28, 2013, and I am at the home of Bob Olson here in Oak Ridge. Mr. Olson, thank you for taking time to talk with us.
MR. OLSON: You're welcome.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's start at the beginning. Why don't you tell me where you were born and raised, something about your family and growing up.
MR. OLSON: Well, I was born in Arlington, Virginia, 1938. And, my dad worked for the Department of Agriculture. We lived there, well, let's see, until I was, I guess, 13 and moved to Raleigh, North Carolina. And then, eventually, to Charlotte, North Carolina. At a high school science fair, they had a speaker named Cliff Beck who had previously been the criticality guru at the K-25 site. He was then head of the nuclear engineering department at NC State, and he said, "What you want to do is go to NC State and study nuclear engineering and get in on the ground floor of something wonderful." And, lo, and behold, I did that.
MR. MCDANIEL: And this was when you were in high school?
MR. OLSON: Yeah, yeah... And I didn't know what an engineer did much less a nuclear engineer, maybe I'm still not sure. Anyway, I graduated with a BS in 1960, and stayed and got a Master's in '62, and went to work at Savannah River Lab down near Aiken, South Carolina. I noticed that some of the plum jobs went to the guys with Ph.D.’s -- although I got interesting work, too, when I look back on it. There was a professor named Steve Hanauer from UT [University of Tennessee] who had a graduate student working at the Lab and I got to know him and he somehow persuaded me, after I'd worked five years, to take my savings, quit my job and go to UT.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you were still at Savannah River?
MR. OLSON: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MR. OLSON: So that was 1967, I came to UT and one of the things I did was I taught the senior nuclear engineering lab as a, you know, a teaching assistant. And we brought students out to Oak Ridge National Lab to do reactor experiments so I sort of got to know ORNL, little bit. And then, later, I got a badge when I was trying to find a thesis project so I could work out at ORNL in the I & C division -- that's Instrumentation and Control. But Oak Ridge National Lab came on hard times about then. That was 1969 and '70. They told me I could use all the pencils and all the paper I wanted, but if I wanted to use a reactor or a computer, I had to bring money.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. OLSON: I had no idea how you do that. You know, I was just this dumb graduate student, I was no politician. And I found at Savannah River Lab, they had ORAU money to support graduate students and they didn't have any graduate students -- well, they had one, but they had more money. So I went back there to do my thesis.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. OLSON: In 1971, I graduated and the nuclear engineering world was in a great depression. Jobs were extremely difficult to get. Of course, I wanted to be at a national lab.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: Forget that! I ended up at an architect engineering firm in Chicago. That turns out, that was a wonderful job. I guess I didn't understand how wonderful it was for a long time, but I got wild ideas that I wanted to be a consultant because that would be glamorous or something. It wasn't. (laughs) But I came to SAIC in Oak Ridge in 1982. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, so from '72 until '82, you worked in Chicago, is that correct?
MR. OLSON: '71 until '82.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, '71 to '82, sure.
MR. OLSON: And, let's see... after about five years, I found SAIC kind of stressful for me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really.
MR. OLSON: Well, it's a magnificent company, you know. They're growing like crazy, very profitable, got a lot of good people, but I just found the stress was a little bit more than I wanted. So, I left Oak Ridge, went back to Savannah River Lab and they changed contractors. And I found that I wasn't real happy working for the new contractor and besides everything was being shut down. They were essentially going out of business. And, well, two things happened: One of my very best friends died. I had met him at UT in 1967, and his wife, whose name was, Wanda. And he died in about '92, and Wanda and I kept in communication but we sort of thought, You know, we've been real good friends for, what? 20-some years, almost 30, what should we do with our friendship? She lived in San Diego and I lived in Augusta, Georgia, and she thought maybe she'd like to move back to the Oak Ridge area because her family was here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MR. OLSON: Which was a good idea, of course.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: Then they offered early retirement at Savannah River Lab and I looked at it and said, “You know, I could do this.” I had saved and invested and, you know, was kind of comfortable. I thought, “If I get some consulting work, we could do this.”
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: So, by golly, we got married and moved back here (laughs) and didn't live in Oak Ridge -- we didn't find a house we liked in Oak Ridge so we lived about halfway to Clinton on the south side of the river.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what year was that when you moved?
MR. OLSON: '95.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay,'95, okay.
MR. OLSON: So I was 57 years old and retired and I did do some consulting work but I found I was kind of bored.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: I didn't have a lot of, you know technical friends, intellectual friends and then something called ORICL came about -- Oak Ridge Institute for Continued Learning. A friend suggested I might like to take some courses there, so I did and I liked it. And I've been doing that ever since.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. OLSON: Wanda and I found that, you know, we're driving into Oak Ridge separately every day, why don't we move there... so we moved here six years ago.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MR. OLSON: ORICL is nearly my life now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. OLSON: Well, you know, they have trips and they have classes and they asked if anybody would like to work on the trip committee, organize trips, and I volunteered for that and I'm still doing that. That's been about 11 or 12 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. OLSON: And then, they started something called the Philosophical Society, which has come to be a very pompous misnomer. (laughs) Well, the idea was, there'd be about 20 of us and one of us would make a presentation on something and, of course, then the other 19 would criticize, right? Argue.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.
MR. OLSON: And that worked for about a year until we found we didn't have much more to talk about. (laughs) So we started inviting guest speakers and then, the founder died -- he had convinced me I should be the co-moderator...
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MR. OLSON: He died. And I thought, “This thing was so good I going to try to keep it up.”
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: And I have.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. OLSON:  So far! (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, I understand.
MR. OLSON: We get about 30 different speakers each year, meet on Fridays at 11. And so, then I became the chairperson of the Philosophy curriculum committee.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MR. OLSON: Well, then I was invited to serve on the science curriculum committee and then recently no one -- the chairman wanted to get out of it, health reasons and others, and no one else stepped up so I've done that. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, wow.
MR. OLSON: And then they asked me to serve on the board.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: So ORICL is my life, between taking courses, arranging courses, getting speakers, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. OLSON: I do some other things.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. OLSON: I'm a telephone worker at Contact Helpline.
MR. MCDANIEL: Are you?
MR. OLSON: Two nights a month and I work with United Way some. Well, let's see, for six years I was on the board of Clinch River Home Health.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. OLSON: Which was quite an eye-opening experience.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. OLSON: Yeah. I knew nothing about that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. Now, so let's kind of go back. When you first came to Oak Ridge, actually when you first came to UT and you started doing work at the Lab. What was that like? What was the Lab like? What was the culture like?
MR. OLSON: Oh, well. Everyone was friendly and helpful. I guess, you know, somehow the Lab got paid money to host the seniors in nuclear engineering from UT. I don't know what the arrangement was, it wasn't a great, I'm sure it wasn't a financial burden.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: It fit into their mission. Everyone was friendly, helpful just good as they could be, just absolutely fine.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Was there any person or persons in particular that you remember interfacing with or dealing with?
MR. OLSON: Yeah, Bob Costner. And he's still alive.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was his job at the Lab?
MR. OLSON: I'm not absolutely certain. I guess he was sort of in charge of two of the reactors.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. OLSON: The Pool Critical Assembly and the Bulk Shielding Reactor. And he's still a good friend to this day.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? So, that was the first time you really came to Oak Ridge.
MR. OLSON: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was the community, and that was, you said that was early '70s, late '60s?
MR. OLSON: 1967.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right, late '60s. What was the community like? Did you spend much time in the community?
MR. OLSON: No, I didn't.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you living in Knoxville?
MR. OLSON: Bring back a little ancient history: I read a book about Oak Ridge when I was a teenager.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. OLSON: And I always thought, that must be a wonderful place, you know, I'd like to go there. Well, I only went to the Lab, you know, from UT. I guess it was a Sunday or something and I said, I wonder what the town is like. So I drove out here and I drove around and I was never so unimpressed with any place in my life, you know. Well, it was Sunday, there was nothing happening. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.
MR. OLSON: So, I drove around, there were a few department stores and, you know, a lot of houses like a bedroom community and I knew nothing of all the activities that went on other times like the Playhouse, the symphony, rowing. You know, there was a model airplane club and a group with sports cars in the parking lot of what's now the mall. I didn't know anything about that, I rode around, I said, I'm going home. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: So when did you discover those things?
MR. OLSON: When I came back here to live in 1982, when I lived in the town.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. OLSON: And one of the things that I discovered, there were SCUBA divers and there was a fellow named F.O. Christie, who retired from DOE, and he organized trips to the Caribbean and, you know, other places. In fact, there's a souvenir shirt from the Turks and Caicos Islands.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: And so, I joined the SCUBA club and I went at least once a year on some trip to the Caribbean. It was inexpensive and lots of friends.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, were you single or were you married?
MR. OLSON: I was single at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, okay.
MR. OLSON: Divorced.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. OLSON: So, yeah, the SCUBA trips were wonderful and I kept doing that 'til '96, I guess.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really? So, the second time you came back to Oak Ridge you really kind of got involved in the community -- discovered things about it and things such as that.
MR. OLSON: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: The second time you came back you were working at the Lab, is that correct?
MR. OLSON: No. I was working for SAIC...
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right. SAIC.  Now, did you travel a lot with SAIC?
MR. OLSON: Yes, I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: As any of their people do, I suppose.
MR. OLSON: Yeah, for about nine months, I lived in Oak Ridge and worked in Las Vegas. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. OLSON: Terrible commute. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I'm sure it was. But, SAIC, their headquarters is... it's not Oak Ridge.
MR. OLSON: San Diego.
MR. MCDANIEL: San Diego, that's correct, that's correct. But you worked out of the Oak Ridge office. What were some of the other things, other activities you got involved in at that time when you came to Oak Ridge?
MR. OLSON: Well, you know, I was working and out of town a lot.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: Well, went to the Playhouse and I guess I went to the symphony a time or two.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. OLSON: I was kind of busy, but I made time for the SCUBA diving.
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course. Yeah, sure.
MR. OLSON: Well, you know, you have to have vacations somewhere.
MR. MCDANIEL: That is true.
MR. OLSON: Take a week and go to Mexico or Belize or somewhere -- that was fun.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's talk a little bit about when you and Wanda came back, you decided to... you weren't living in Oak Ridge proper but you were here in the community. And you retired and moved here and that's kind of when you started getting involved in different things like ORICL. Talk a little bit about what it was like to retire to Oak Ridge. What's it like to live in Oak Ridge as a retired person?
MR. OLSON: Well, I can't think of a better place, offhand. I mean, a lot of people want to go to Florida. I've been to Florida. But the thing, Oak Ridge, you know, we have good weather, we have variety in weather -- we have winters and summers! (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. OLSON: And we have the mountains, have all kinds of outdoors activities -- wonderful place. But the intellectual community is the big thing. Let's see -- I'll digress a little bit, maybe, but...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, go ahead.
MR. OLSON: Through ORICL, I have gotten to know some of the most wonderful people. You know, it sort of amazes me: I got to know Alvin Weinberg, because you know, I thought he was a God-like entity that wouldn't have any interest at all in me. But we became fairly good friends.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. OLSON: Had all kinds of times together, usually, you know, in groups. But it was kind of wonderful to know him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, I imagine so, someone who was this  -- as I call him a rock star -- you know, in his field, you know, I guess it was kind of --  and you being in that field -- getting to know him was, I'm certain, was special. Who were some of the other folks that you've... or some of the... tell me some stories about maybe ORICL and some of the classes and how it ... your early involvement and things such as that.
MR. OLSON: Well, it's hard to remember early involvement in ORICL. I remember -- ORICL is, it's 500 people now. It was not that large when it started out. There weren't that many courses, there weren't that many people but kind of early on, especially with Philosophical Society. You know, there are some really bright people -- people who are outstanding in their field in there -- in biology, including, you know, nuclear engineering, physics, chemistry... It's a great span and just wonderful people to know. One of the things we do now, we've been doing it quite a few years, you know, we have the Philosophical Society meeting at 11 on Friday and it usually goes over to 12:30 or something. And then we go -- there are about eight of us -- that go to Panera Bread Co. for lunch and we manage to make lunch last about two hours because we enjoy each other's company.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: Some really bright people -- just wonderful people to know. So that's -- to me, that's Oak Ridge; it's the intellectual community.
MR. MCDANIEL: And I would imagine that's not... it's uncommon -- I mean, it's not rare but it would be uncommon to find a community like Oak Ridge.
MR. OLSON: Well, there's Los Alamos. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: Which is another kind of small city with a great fraction of Ph.D.’s in the town. But I don't know where else; it's hard to imagine.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you have any good stories about your time in Oak Ridge or your life in Oak Ridge or ORICL or people that you knew or had relationships or interfaced with?
MR. OLSON: Well Alvin Weinberg, of course, leaps to mind. We used to have lunch with him. He sort of had his own room at the - what's the name of it? The Homeland Cafe...
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. OLSON: When they were in the old building.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. OLSON: And they sat that aside for him, you know, Friday for lunch and I and some of my friends would join him there. And one time -- Alvin was soft-spoken -- you know, everybody else would be jibber-jabbering and he couldn't get a word in, and I thought that was terrible.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: So one time, that was going on and I just sort of loudly said, "Alvin, where were you when you heard about the problem with the Hanford reactors?" and this would have been like 1944.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: They had a real serious problem they overcame but they didn't know what it was at first and, so, you know, that's a memorable thing in this field.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: Alvin immediately replied, "I was outside a pub on 59th Street!" (laughs) and went on to tell about hearing about it, you know, and then the effort that then started to find out what was wrong. And I thought, this man's 90 years old and he can remember exactly where he was and when. Isn't that remarkable? But, I don't know, let's see, other stories, other stories ... Well, you know, they're all good stories. Not too many of them stand out as being different.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. OLSON: So, you know, I'm afraid I'm going to let you down.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's all right, that's all right. Let's talk a little bit more about ORICL. You're obviously actively involved in, not only taking classes but in helping, you know, form classes and things such as that. Where do you, kind of, see ORICL headed? Just, kind of, continuing doing what they do? Or is there anything kind of big, in the future, for them as far as a change would go?
MR. OLSON: Well, you know we're always a little bit concerned about just continuing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: And we make efforts to, you know, let new retirees know about us. Because, you know, they may not.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: You know if you just, if you're working for a living and you're busy and living in this town or nearby, why would you know about ORICL?
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: So, we try to make sure new retirees know about us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Otherwise, you're going to run out of people.
MR. OLSON: Yeah. Well, unfortunately, yes. We either... Some of us become ill, some of us die.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: Very seldom does anyone move away. Oh, I'll tell you an ORICL story. There was a younger fellow showed up for a class. And I didn't recognize him at all. You know, he seemed like he was maybe only in his 50s.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Thank you, I appreciate that, as a matter of fact (laughs) calling him a younger fellow.
MR. OLSON: So, you know, I approached him after the class and said, you know, a new face here, we're always glad to have new people. Can I ask you a little about yourself? Well, he and his wife had just moved here from Texas. They both are still working from home, so he had some time for ORICL. The reason they moved here was ORICL and rowing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. OLSON: That's right. (laughs) And that's, you know... I got hold of Caroline Krause who's on our board and does our publicity and said, interview that guy and do a write-up on him, this is good.
MR. MCDANIEL: Absolutely, absolutely.  Well, I've interviewed, you know, lots of folks who are active in ORICL and, you know, many, many of them say they would never consider leaving Oak Ridge simply because of ORICL.
MR. OLSON: That's right. If I left Oak Ridge, I'd leave a lot of my life behind.
MR. MCDANIEL: And I would imagine that is, I mean, that would be something that's really unique about Oak Ridge. Another thing that's unique about Oak Ridge is it gives the retired population a very vibrant community in which to get involved.
MR. OLSON: Right. 
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you know, if you want to do that, it is there. Whereas there may be other places that just don't really offer anything to that population.
MR. OLSON: I know some do. They tend to have high tuition. Ours is a hundred bucks a year which is so close to free... (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: And you get to take as many classes as you want.
MR. OLSON: That's right, that's right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: Well, you know, to change the subject a little bit. One thing that I've enjoyed a lot in Oak Ridge, I got involved in mentoring high school students. At first, it was for something called the Science Olympiad and we did things like we made water rockets...
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. OLSON: And, you know, things of that sort and I had a good time. But then, I guess it was the third year that I did that, Peggy Bertrand was the physics teacher at Oak Ridge High School and she got a grant from the Lemelson MIT Foundation, MIT being Massachusetts Institute of Technology, to develop something. And, you know, it was $10,000 and the students were enthusiastic and they figured out they wanted to build a water-powered, water purification system.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MR. OLSON: And I worked with them -- we did that. We had the help of George Solomon of Vacuum Technologies, Incorporated, because his daughter was one of the students.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: So we got to use his shop and a creek behind his shop. We did it in the winter and I remember my feet freezing in that cold water. (laughs) But it was still fun. And we took it up to MIT -- I guess that was in May, two years ago -- and showed it off there with a lot of other students. And the students had to get up on stage before three or four hundred people in an auditorium and talk about what they'd done. Peggy Bertrand was wringing her hands, 'Oh, they'll be nervous.' I said, 'Don't worry!' and they did wonderfully well. The thing was, these kids were just about genius level...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. OLSON: And I think maybe in Oak Ridge we have a higher percentage of kids like that than in some other schools.
MR. MCDANIEL: I think you may be right.
MR. OLSON: So they're just wonderful to work with.
MR. MCDANIEL: And, you know, that probably comes from a couple of things: I would think one is the kind of people that live in Oak Ridge are highly educated and their kids just have good genes, probably, but they also probably have -- they understand the importance of getting a good education.
MR. OLSON: Well, it's genes and culture.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, exactly.
MR. OLSON: You have parents who read, parents who are interested in things, parents who do things...
MR. MCDANIEL: And, on the other hand, you have the school system which, for the most part, has a long history of providing a good educational experience for its students.
MR. OLSON: Outstanding teachers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, absolutely.
MR. OLSON: Anyway, let's see, that was in May and I think it was in November that Peggy Bertrand got a phone call from MIT on a Monday and said, take your water purifier to the White House to show the president.
MR. MCDANIEL: No! Really?
MR. OLSON: And they managed to do it - called on Monday and they had to have it done by Thursday. And three of the students went in and showed the thing to President Obama and they weren't nervous.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. OLSON: They were just the most wonderful kids in the world.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow!
MR. OLSON: And then, he mentioned them in speeches he gave around the country.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did he really?
MR. OLSON: Yeah. So, you know, I didn't go, but my head swelled up real big for about a week! (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure it did, I'm sure it did...Well, that's a fascinating story - that's an amazing story.
MR. OLSON: I don't know where else it could happen.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, that's great. Anything else? Any other stories that you have?
MR. OLSON: Oh, let's see.
MR. MCDANIEL: That you'd like to tell.
MR. OLSON: Last year, I worked with some physics students -- they have a program called thesis, a course, and they have to do some experiment, you know, demonstrate something, develop something.
MR. MCDANIEL: This is at the high school?
MR. OLSON: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.
MR. OLSON: And there was a ... I guess I can use the name -- Steven Schwan was one of the students. He's just finished his first year at Georgia Tech, freshman year, and he's going to skip sophomore year and go straight to junior year. This is a bright young man. He's also started his own company.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really. Wow. My goodness.
MR. OLSON: So, just getting to know people like that, you know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. OLSON: The parents are fascinating, but when you see somebody still a teenager doing all this -- wow! Just proud to know him.
MR. MCDANIEL: I bet, I bet. It’s amazing.
MR. OLSON: If his company works and he becomes a billionaire, you know, like Facebook or something, I hope he remembers me. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, you'll certainly remember him. So, anything else, anything else, any other stories, anything else you want to talk about?
MR. OLSON: Oh, you know, nothing leaps to mind. But, you know, Oak Ridge is -- it's a good place.
MR. MCDANIEL: You're not leaving anytime soon, are you?
MR. OLSON: No!
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that you know of.
MR. OLSON: I'm leaving feet first, I guess! (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly...
MR. OLSON: Don't know where else I'd want to live.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, very good... Well, thank you so much, Mr. Olson, for taking time to talk to us.
MR. OLSON: Well, you're most welcome.
MR. MCDANIEL: I appreciate it.
MR. OLSON: I hope this is useful in some way.
MR. MCDANIEL: Absolutely. Thank you.

[End of Interview]

[Editor’s Note: This transcript has been edited at Mr. Olson’s request. The corresponding audio and video components have remained unchanged.]