Haynes, Virgil

              
ORAL HISTORY OF VIRGIL HAYNES
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
November 16, 2012
 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	This interview is for the Center of Oak Ridge Oral History. The date is November 16, 2012. I am Don Hunnicutt in the home of Virgil Haynes, 166 Northwestern Avenue, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, to take an oral history about living in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Virgil, please state your full name, place of birth and date of birth.
MR. HAYNES: Virgil Haynes, I was born in Baker, Oregon, January 2, 1922, in the midst of a blizzard. My father had to walk ten miles into Baker, Oregon, to get a doctor and they came back out in a buggy when I got born.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was your father's name and place of birth?
MR. HAYNES: My father was born in Kansas and his name was Chester Monroe Haynes. The town was Carlyle down in the Southeast corner of Kansas.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall the date?
MR. HAYNES: June 17, 1884.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was your mother's maiden name and place of birth and date?
MR. HAYNES: Mother was Millie Cummings and she was born in 1889 in Kirwin, Kansas.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Can you recall your grandfather's name and date and place of birth.
MR. HAYNES: I do know that my grandfather on my father's side was Benjamin Haynes, and he was born, I think, in West Virginia, the best I know. The woman he married, last name was Caldwell and they were in Kansas where my father was born, but in about 1898, he picked up his seven boys and moved to Boise Valley in Idaho. Well, that's where I grew up. And my mother moved out there about the same time to be with her eldest brother who was living in Boise Valley also there. My mother's mother was Judith Fuller, and I've traced her ancestors clear back in England. Her ancestors came over on the Mayflower. There was an Edward Fuller, his wife and son, Samuel, all came over on the Mayflower. His son was about nine years old at that time. And his parents died within just months after they got here, but his uncle, Samuel Fuller was on the Mayflower also. So he was raised by his uncle. His uncle was the physician on the Mayflower and in the Plymouth Community. And I'm descended from the Edward Samuel Fuller of that generation.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about your father's school history?
MR. HAYNES: My father finished high school. His dad, after he was here just about four or five years had a three hundred and twenty acre farm in Boise Valley, but his team ran away. He was run over by a wagon and killed. His three hundred and twenty acres were split up among his wife and the children in forty acre plots. My dad was about seventeen or eighteen at that time. He finished high school and almost immediately taught school in Emmett, which is just outside of Boise Valley. He did that for a year or two. Then he married and got a place in Oregon where I was born. I guess that was not too good for them so they decided to go to California. They put all their livestock on a train and got there, down there in California in, I guess, the Santa Cruz area, a big farming area, but there was a big epidemic of some disease going on so they turned around and came right back to Idaho and settled in Boise Valley. About twenty miles west of Boise on a farm. And that's where I grew up.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about your mother's schooling?
MR. HAYNES: Mother's, I don't know, I guess she finished high school, but I'm not positive of that. I'm sure she did.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What type of work did your father do?
MR. HAYNES: He was a farmer in Boise Valley there. In fact, when he died he was the oldest practicing farmer in the valley.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you have brothers and sisters?
MR. HAYNES: I have one brother, he's still [alive]. He is ninety-four now. And he's in Nampa actually now. He's in an assisted living place.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What is his name?
MR. HAYNES: Chester. He was Chester Jr., Chester Monroe Jr.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you were growing up, did you do farm chores?
MR. HAYNES: Absolutely. I wasn’t allowed to do sports because I had to get home to do chores.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Explain to me what your chores consisted of.
MR. HAYNES: Oh, hoeing in the corn field and cutting thistles out of the pasture and milking the cows. We had a prune orchard and I helped them looking after that and harvesting the prunes. And Dad always said that the prunes, if we get lots of them the price was no good and if you didn't the price was high. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What time of the morning did you get up and start doing chores?
MR. HAYNES: Well, I did not do many chores in the morning; we had to get to school.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What time was that?
MR. HAYNES: School struck up at eight o'clock and we had to walk for a mile to get there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what do you remember about attending the elementary school?
MR. HAYNES: Well, I had an excellent teacher. It was a two room school. Four grades in one room. First four in one room and the second was sixth, seventh, and eighth in another room. So there were two rows of desks for each grade. The teacher was Mabel Scrivener and she was young, but she was really and excellent teacher. My dad was on the school board and she convinced my folks to let me start a year early. My birthday is in January and supposed to be by October was the start. But she let me start a year early and it's kind of funny how that worked out on why I'm here. I might not even be here otherwise. If I had been a year behind I'd probably have been drafted and sent to Europe and might not be here.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was a typical school day like?
MR. HAYNES: Well, we had classes in the morning. We had a recess. We played baseball in the afternoon some. But it was pretty much studies. Pretty much studies.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Reading, writing and arithmetic?
MR. HAYNES: Right. We got to have [them] these days.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about the heating in the school? How was the school room heated?
MR. HAYNES: They had a central unit, coal fired unit.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was the school rooms warm?
MR. HAYNES: I don't recall that they weren't.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So after school, you returned home. Is that when the chores started?
MR. HAYNES: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And about how long would it take you to do the chores?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, I don't really recall.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was it dark?
MR. HAYNES: Until they were done.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was it dark generally when you......
MR. HAYNES: Sometimes, but in Idaho it doesn't get dark as early there. Matter of fact summertime, ten o'clock at night it's pretty light yet. It's that much farther North there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How was the weather in Idaho when you were growing up?
MR. HAYNES: It isn't really so much different than here. It's a drier climate. We'd get some snow in the winter usually, but it was not always all the time, now, in the valley. Now, up in the mountains they'd get a lot of snow. Matter of fact they rely on it for their water for the summer.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your father have a car?
MR. HAYNES: Yes. That's kind of an interesting, but let's see I guess I was about four. Dad had a, I guess it was a Whippet or something, Whippet I think they said. He and my mother's eldest brother that she had gone out there to stay with decided they would go back to Kansas to see the parents. And so they took off in two cars with us kids and immediately got lost. There weren't any maps. I think oh my they got lost right away. And so they got back on the right road and got to Kansas. Come back through Yellowstone. And then the first car I remember he had a Dodge, 1929 Dodge. I guess I learned to drive that.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	After the eighth grade, what school did you attend?
MR. HAYNES: I went to Caldwell High School which is the only high school in the county there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: 	What did you notice different in the high school than the elementary school?
MR. HAYNES: Not a lot. There were mostly just studying, you know. I had some good teachers, a great math teacher, great science teacher.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you like school?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, yeah, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was your favorite subject?
MR. HAYNES: I guess the sciences. Mom is where I get it at, yeah. I had this good science teacher. Matter of fact it was at that time that David Lawrence had just put his major cyclotron at Berkeley which was the forerunner of the calutrons. And he told us about that. He just kind of inspired everybody. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you were in high school did you do any dating?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me about a lot of typical dates were like. Where did you go?
MR. HAYNES: Well, there was some dance places to go dance and the movie theaters, of course. And then costumes, well, I guess there was a lot of money in them, but it seems awful small now. Or we would go have a sandwich, Coke some place.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you active in any sports in high school?
MR. HAYNES: No, I had to get home to do the chores.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	The farm was active then?
MR. HAYNES: Right. Right.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	After high school, what was your continued education?
MR. HAYNES: I went to the University of Idaho at Moscow at Northern Idaho.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what was your major?
MR. HAYNES: Chemical engineering.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what year did you graduate?
MR. HAYNES: 1943.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	In chemical engineering?
MR. HAYNES: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	After that what did you do?
MR. HAYNES: During my last year, my senior year of college they called me from the engineering dean's office and said they had a letter for me. And at that time, at least at Idaho, companies didn't send people around trying to hire people. But there was an application for Eastman Kodak for me. And I filled it out, turned it in. And in fact, you didn't get much assistance in finding a job when coming out of school. 
But I did turn in an application to an aluminum company also. I got identical money offers from them. The Alcoa job would have been at their plant in Oregon. Eastman was going to send me to Kingsport to Tennessee Eastman, and I thought that cleared up until I graduated when I sent them a wire and asked about reporting and they said to report at Knoxville at the Empire Building. So that's what I did.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So how did you get to Knoxville?
MR. HAYNES: Well, step back a bit. I convinced one of my friends to turn in an application for Eastman also. It was Bob Ellingson and we had gone through school together and he was a chemist. It took me awhile to do it, but I got him turned in and he took a job also. So we came back here together on a train. Got in a train at Caldwell. Not air conditioned. Steam engine. Hot. It was in June. Windows open with cinders coming in. As soon as we got to Chicago we were so worn out and found a hotel to stay in and rest up a day before we came on to Clinton. There was no Oak Ridge at that time. 
 And we knew by the end of the trip that there are many Clintons along the way. From Chicago to Cincinnati we had a nice train. It was air conditioned. It wasn't all that crowded. But when we got to Cincinnati we had to get on the Southern and it was completely packed. There were no empty seats at all. Bob and I ended up in the baggage room and lay down on some trunks. We got into Knoxville at five in the morning.  And wandered up to a hotel room to rest up a little bit before we reported to the Empire Building.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember the hotel that you stayed in.
MR. HAYNES: Saint [inaudible]. Saint Francis, Saint something. It was right there just off Gay Street.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So, the next morning when you two got up what transpired?
MR. HAYNES: Well, we went down to the Empire Building and they checked us in, put us in a car, and brought us to Oak Ridge. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now where was the Empire Building?
MR. HAYNES: It's about a block off of Gay Street. Pretty close to where the big facility is. Oh, I forget what it is now, but the one the guys built who had the publishing outfit.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Oh, the bank.
MR. HAYNES: What is the name of that? I forget his name. But he was the big wheel and dealer.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Chris Little.....Whittle.
MR. HAYNES: Yeah, Whittle.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Whittle.
MR. HAYNES: Supposed to just after we're Downtown from there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	 So they brought you two guys in a car to Oak Ridge.
MR. HAYNES: They brought several of us. Matter of fact Harold McCurdy was in the car also. He and I have the same date of going to work at Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So what do you remember discussion between the group in the car ride?
MR. HAYNES: Not a thing. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where in Oak Ridge did you arrive?
MR. HAYNES: We arrived in the Jackson Square area and they had a dormitory room for us. The dormitory was about where the Cheyenne Center is now. It was down that street.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what year was that in?
MR. HAYNES: That was June 20, 1943.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall coming through one of the gates to get into the city?
MR. HAYNES: No I don't.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So you were housed in a dormitory. Now do you remember what the dormitory looked like inside?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, yeah. Yeah it was straight just like the......just straight rooms on each side of the hallway and a community bath area and all the dormitories were segregated - men's dormitories and women's dormitories. And they had built a few at that time. They had a few of the cemesto houses built. They had a few of the dormitories built around the Jackson Square area there. And the big cafeteria that has since burned was there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you and Bob Ellingson share a dormitory room?
MR. HAYNES: We did. And nobody thought anything about it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was that your choice or did you......or could you make that choice?
MR. HAYNES: I don't remember that we had a choice on that. I don't think we did. But we were only here about a month. They didn't have anything here really to train you on.  There was some instruction about vacuum systems and of course we were going to Y-12, where the calutrons were going to be. And nobody knew anything about them. So they had been sending groups of people out to Berkeley to the radiation lab and the E.O. Lawrence Cyclotron Building, where they had two of the calutrons units to train on. 
 Bob and I were in the last group that went out there and everybody was out there three months and since we were the last group I and Percy Staats, Gill Mellon and another fellow were left another month in the transition period turning it back over to the cyclotron people.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So how did you guys get from Oak Ridge at that time to California?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, we had a good train then. It was air conditioned. We had a nice place to sleep. We had bunks to sleep on and it was a nice trip back then going west.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have to go back to Knoxville to catch the train?
MR. HAYNES: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So when you came back from California, tell me what happened then.
MR. HAYNES: Well, dormitory space was extremely scarce at that time and they were letting groups of men and groups of women stay in houses and Bob Ellingson, Frank Neil, Dick Holly, and Glen Finner had saved me a place in one of the houses that they had been assigned to which is 101 Turner Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what type of house was that?
MR. HAYNES: C house.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And can you describe what the C house looked like?
MR. HAYNES: Three bedrooms, living room, kitchen, utility room.
MR. HUNNICUTT: 	What type of heat was in the house?
MR. HAYNES: Coal, I guess.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember how you got the coal or how the coal got to the house?
MR. HAYNES: I recall there was a bin that they would come and fill up.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And how many lived in the house?
MR. HAYNES: Five.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did each one of you guys have different work shifts?
MR. HAYNES: Not, well, yeah. Yes and no. Weren't all on the same shift, but Ellingson and I were on the same shift.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So when someone was at home someone else was gone. Is that it?
MR. HAYNES: Yeah. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And so out of five guys with three bedrooms, obviously somebody had to share a bedroom.
MR. HAYNES: Yeah. Two of us shared bedrooms and one had a room to himself.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was that house furnished when you moved in?
MR. HAYNES: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So basically all you had to do is buy groceries and cook for yourself.
MR. HAYNES: Right, right.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you guys eat at home a lot or did you go out to the cafeterias?
MR. HAYNES: Yes, yes, no we ate at home mostly I guess.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now Turner Road, is that off of Tennessee Avenue?
MR. HAYNES: Yes, it's just about, Turner changes into Tyson, I think it is. Right where we lived, and it's the first road from Turnpike. Just back of where Eddie Hair’s place is. Just down the street from there on the next road back down.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	That's a short distance from the Town Site area?
MR. HAYNES: Very short.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So how did you get back and forth to work?
MR. HAYNES: On the bus.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And where did you catch the bus?
MR. HAYNES: I guess we caught it at, let's see, we caught that at Jackson Square.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So if you didn't ride the bus you had to walk wherever you went?
MR. HAYNES: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall a lot of mud in those days in the city?
MR. HAYNES: There was a considerable amount of mud. Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about boardwalks? Do you remember the boardwalks? Describe what they were.
MR. HAYNES: They were just boards up over the ground nailed together of course, and we got up through the woods a lot.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So, did they parallel the streets well?
MR. HAYNES: No, they kind of wandered around, I think, the boardwalks as I recall. I don't remember any on the streets.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So, up through the woods would be what we're calling the greenbelt today probably?
MR. HAYNES: Yes, I knew most about them when I lived on East Holston Lane where I lived when I first got married.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was your job when you went to Y-12? What was your job title?
MR. HAYNES: My first title I guess was Technical Supervisor. After I came back from California, they had Building-9731 open which had two Alpha units and two Beta units with a wall between them. Beta people couldn't associate with the Alpha people. And I wasn't really assigned anywhere when I first came back. They had me giving instructions about the calutron to some of the management people that were coming in. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have any idea the plants were building or what was going on?
MR. HAYNES: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Describe to me about the secrecy during those days.
MR. HAYNES: It was pretty tight. Yeah, it was.  You didn't talk about your job to anybody. Matter of fact when I was out in California any mail that I got or sent was carried from Berkeley back to Oak Ridge and the mail would come in to Oak Ridge and go out of Oak Ridge even though you were out in Berkeley. They didn't want any kind of association going on. But Ellingson had read in a Reader's Digest article before ….he became kind of tied up in the vision part of the article he remembered.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall your first day on the job where you went and orientation and things of that nature?
MR. HAYNES: Yes, well the building I think is still there back of the DOE buildings. Older buildings, there and a fellow named Bob Cyr was giving these instructions on vacuum [inaudible]. And I think if I recall about that time they got one of the Alpha units over in the next building and we got to see it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about a badge? Did you have an ID badge?
MR. HAYNES: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was on the badge?
MR. HAYNES: Don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Oh, your picture obviously and I guess you had a badge number?
MR. HAYNES: Yeah, my number is 417, I remember that. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you instructed about your badge to only wear it when you entered and were in the plant area, when you left you had to take your badge off for security reasons?
MR. HAYNES: No, I don't remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How long did you guys live together in the house on Turner?
MR. HAYNES: Well, longer than we wanted us to stay. It took them a while to get us out of there. They kept threatening us to get us out of there because they had found some dormitory space to put people in. And after two or three weeks after I got back here I did get into the Beta operations in the 9731 Beta and ended up in the Beta-1 building the first day it was open and worked there until it closed. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What did guys your age, 21 years old, 22 years old, what did you guys do other than going to work?
MR. HAYNES: Well, we worked a lot. We worked, if I recall seven days a week and long hours. Well it was shift work after that, after they got the building open. But they had those dances on the tennis courts up town. They had the theater going. And we'd go to Knoxville some. Ride the cattle cars in there. But I managed to get enough money together to buy a car before very long and so I had a car then for a while after that. 
MR. HUNNICUTT: 	You mentioned cattle car. What was that?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, like a semi with just a bench along sides of it, we call it cattle car.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	It was an open air type?
MR. HAYNES: No, it wasn't open. It was closed.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And you would ride that to Knoxville and back?
MR. HAYNES: You could ride that to Knoxville, no charge and back.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall where they let you out in Knoxville?
MR. HAYNES: No, I don't.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Or picked you up in Oak Ridge?
MR. HAYNES: Well they picked me up at Jackson Square, I guess it was. And it was a tortuous route into Knoxville at that time. The roads were not very good. 
MR. HUNNICUTT: 	Were there a lot of young girls in Oak Ridge at that time?
MR. HAYNES: Quite a few.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So young men had a lot of opportunity to mingle with the young ladies?
MR. HAYNES: Well, what time they had. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall your paycheck and how much it was?
MR. HAYNES: I remember I was hired for thirty-eight dollars a week, but working overtime I got more than that. And it was a real bonus when they sent me out to Berkeley because then I got a ninety dollar a month living allowance and that was adequate, more than adequate. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	 Now, when you guys lived in the cemesto house did you have to pay rent?
MR. HAYNES: Yeah, sure we did. It would have been very little, but pretty nominal amount I'm sure.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about electric and ….
MR. HAYNES: I believe that was all furnished.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you guys have a telephone in the house?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, did we have a telephone? I don't recall we did. I don't believe we did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: 	When you moved, where did you move to?
MR. HAYNES: Well, I was real fortunate in that. One of the fellows in the Beta-1 building where I was working at that time, lived in a D house with his wife. He was from Albuquerque. He came here from Albuquerque and his wife had asthma so bad that she couldn’t stand living here so she moved back to Albuquerque. So he had a D house all to himself. And so he let Ellingson and Ken Bernander move in with him. So and we all lived with him until we got married.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Describe a D house. What's it look like?
MR. HAYNES: A D house is a little better than a C. Same three bedrooms, I guess, but it's more spacious and had a fireplace come to think about it. And a functioning fireplace.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember the address of the D house?
MR. HAYNES: Don't remember the number. It was on North Tampa Lane.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	North Tampa was that pretty close to where you lived before?
MR. HAYNES: Well, up the hill probably a little East and up the hill. Up on top of the hill it is probably a mile and a half or so where I lived before.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall how the weather was in those days? Was the weather real frigid? Did you have a lot of snows? Were the summers hot?
MR. HAYNES: Well, seems like I suffered in the summer time. The humidity was a lot different than I had been used to in Idaho, but it was no big problem.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now, you mentioned that you guys lived in that house until you got married. Where did you meet your future wife?
MR. HAYNES: At Y-12. She worked at Y-12 also.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what was her name?
MR. HAYNES: Juanita Fristoe and we just met and dated for some time, quite a while. We got married in 1946.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where did you get married?
MR. HAYNES: Got married in the Chapel-on-the-Hill.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall where you went on your dates?
MR. HAYNES: Well the movies mostly, I guess, yeah. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you attend dances on the tennis courts?
MR. HAYNES: Once in a while, not often.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you visit the public library very often?
MR. HAYNES: Just occasionally, not too often.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about some of the rec halls throughout town?
MR. HAYNES: Well, we had a recreation place even [inaudible] from the very beginning there in the Jackson Square area they had one. And then eventually they had Grove Center. They had things going on there too.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you involved in any activities other than work out, maybe bowling or swimming pool or things of that nature?
MR. HAYNES: Well, go up to Big Ridge sometime after we got a car.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When did you get a car?
MR. HAYNES: Fairly soon, I guess after I got here. It was a '38 Buick. Pretty soon it started having heating problems and I had to change the radiator on it and the radiator they had in those days were made out of steel rather than copper and so from then on it wouldn't go more than about 55 miles an hour without heating up. So I decided to get another car.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And did you buy the car in Oak Ridge?
MR. HAYNES: Yeah, I bought it used from somebody. I don't remember. And I sold it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Remember how much your cars cost?
MR. HAYNES: No, I can't remember that. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	The Chapel-on-the-Hill is an icon in Oak Ridge. Where is it located?
MR. HAYNES: It is located in Jackson Square area just behind what used to be called the Town House, Alexander Hotel.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now, where did you first live after you got married?
MR. HAYNES: On the East Holston.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What type of a house was that?
MR. HAYNES: It was an apartment, one bedroom apartment.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall how the apartment was heated in those days?
MR. HAYNES: I don't recall how that was heated. There are four, four units. Four apartments in the building and I don't recall anybody taking care of the heating.
MR. HUNNICUTT: 	Did your wife work at the time?
MR. HAYNES: She did for a while.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What did she do?
MR. HAYNES: She was secretary. Eastman didn't let people ah, couples, they couldn't work the same department. She found a secretarial job up in another building. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember where your wife did her grocery shopping?
MR. HAYNES: Yeah, I think mainly at, I guess it was the A&P in Jackson Square.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about standing in lines, was that a normal thing to have to do when shopping?
MR. HAYNES: There was a lot of standing in lines, especially when it was cigarettes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you smoke?
MR. HAYNES: Yes, for a while. I did smoke. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So what was it like to stand in line to get anything, I mean, how long did you have to stand in line, do you recall?
MR. HAYNES: Well, there were lines for getting a lot of the things. Scarce items there were lines. But I don't recall that I did much of that.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall where you bought your cigarettes most of the time?
MR. HAYNES: I don't know.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I had people tell me that they used to stand in line around Jackson Square all the way down to Kentucky Avenue waiting for cigarettes. Just curious if that might be one of you standing in line.
MR. HAYNES: I don't think so. I don't know that I had a lot of trouble finding them but I did smoke them.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You had a car when you were first married and you both worked. How did your wife get to work?
MR. HAYNES: She went with another group of people.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Carpooled?
MR. HAYNES: Yes. Carpool.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So about how long did she work?
MR. HAYNES: She worked until 1946 when they started to have the big layoffs at Y-12.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall milk deliveries, door to door salesmen or anything like that?
MR. HAYNES: No door to door salesmen in Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about home milk deliveries? Do you remember that?
MR. HAYNES: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And then March in 1949, they opened the gates to the city. Do you recall that event and if so where were you?
MR. HAYNES: Well, I went up town and watched the parade with all the movie stars coming by and so I just remember a little bit, but I didn't do extreme on it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you said participate, what did you do?
MR. HAYNES: Just went and watched.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember some of the Hollywood stars that were in the parade?
MR. HAYNES: Yes, Marie McDonald and Adolphe Menjou, Rod Cameron, that's the ones I remember. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I've always heard Marie McDonald was called…
MR. HAYNES: “The Body.”
MR. HUNNICUTT:	...Marie “the Body” McDonald.
MR. HAYNES: That's right.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was she that pretty?
MR. HAYNES: Well, she was pretty alright, but there are prettier.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you still working......
MR. HAYNES: She wasn't Elizabeth Taylor.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you still working at Y-12 at that time?
MR. HAYNES: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Same job you had before?
MR. HAYNES: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now, they dropped the bomb in '45, and the word was out about Oak Ridge what they did. What was it like at work when that news came in? Do you recall?
MR. HAYNES: Well, there was a lot of celebrating. I guess about when the bomb was dropped?
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yes.
MR. HAYNES: There were a lot of people that celebrated like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Seemed to be happy or were they astonished about what had happened?
MR. HAYNES: Both I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How about you? Were you astonished at what you found out you were doing?
MR. HAYNES: No, I think by that time I was pretty well aware of what we were doing. An interesting side light on that is another one of the fellows I went to college with ended up in the in the submarines. He was on the submarine that was lying off shore when they dropped the bomb. And I guess they were close enough they could see the blast. Fortunately they did not have to pick them up, but they were just lying off shore in case they had to ditch their plane. And they said that he knew them and what we were doing. He had been here for the Ellingson wedding as a matter of fact. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did Bob Ellingson ever talk to you about after the news is out about what transpired?
MR. HAYNES: I don't think we ever discussed it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about children? Did you guys have children?
MR. HAYNES: I have two children.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What are their names?
MR. HAYNES: Gary and Linda.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And where are they today?
MR. HAYNES: Linda is in Birmingham and Gary is in Knoxville. Gary just retired from Y-12. He knows how to hurt a fellow I tell you.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did they go through the Oak Ridge School System?
MR. HAYNES: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And do you recall the schools they attended?
MR. HAYNES: They went to Robertsville, well they went to Woodland and Robertsville then the high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now this house you live in today, have you lived in this house since the beginning?
MR. HAYNES: I moved in this house in December of 1949, when it was brand new.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And this is a what, what type of house is this?
MR. HAYNES: It's one of the Woodland block houses.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And how many bedrooms does this house have?
MR. HAYNES: Now?
MR. HUNNICUTT:	No, in the early days.
MR. HAYNES: In the early days it had two. It now has three.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall the original heating in this house?
MR. HAYNES: Originally, when they built these they put in a coal bin and it was going to be a coal fired furnace, but before they finished building them they got rid of the coal and put in oil. So it was heated with oil.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have an oil tank somewhere outside?
MR. HAYNES: Yeah, buried in the ground out back.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now do you recall who delivered the oil and how it got here? Did you have to pay for it?
MR. HAYNES: To start with we were still....we were still renting from the government for a month. They delivered the oil then, but I got it from the station down on Turnpike after I bought the house.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember if you had some problem in the house and could be faucet leaking or something of that nature, what you had to do? Or who you called to get it repaired?
MR. HAYNES: I guess it was Roane Anderson, I believe. 
MR. HUNNICUTT: 	And so they would come out and do all the repairs?
MR. HAYNES: They were good about that too as I recall.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	At that time, your wife wasn't working after you had children?
MR. HAYNES: That's right.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So what do you remember about when your children went to the Oak Ridge school system? Do you remember what type of schooling they got? Was it above the normal or do you recall?
MR. HAYNES: I always had the impression it was above the normal. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did that seem to be better schooling than what you had?
MR. HAYNES: I'm not sure it was better, but different I'm sure.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	After you worked with the calutrons at Y-12 did you go to another position?
MR. HAYNES: Well, when they...we tried to develop the calutrons to compete with the gaseous diffusion process but there's no way the batch process can compete with a continuous process. That was unsuccessful. I had a choice like the Laboratory in X-10 or staying with Y-12. And I chose to go with the X-10 organization.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How long did you work at X-10?
MR. HAYNES: My total service time was 42 years and 7 months.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Is that where you retired from?
MR. HAYNES: I retired from there, yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you enjoy your whole work time while you were working at Oak Ridge.
MR. HAYNES: Until the last few years, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was different about the last few years?
MR. HAYNES: Everyone was trying to do too much. They stuck their nose in too much to control things instead of giving you a job and letting you do it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were your wife and you active in activities throughout the city.
MR. HAYNES: Not very, no.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When your children went to school, did they dress different than when you went to school?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, yeah, yeah. Ah, you know, just the attires changes over the years.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I'm going to mention a few places of interest and tell me what you remember about. The Snow White Drive-In.
MR. HAYNES: That's an institution here. Snow White Drive-In. It was kind of the place to go for breakfast particularly. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And did you get curb service at the Snow White Drive-In?
MR. HAYNES: Very little. I didn't …..I didn't do a lot of eating out.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about the Skyway Drive-In Theater?
MR. HAYNES: Ah, used that quite a bit, yeah. In fact, the guy that ran it was a friend of mine.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where was it located?
MR. HAYNES: Way down where Kroger’s is way down in that area. It's kind of hard to try to place things these days.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was that a family affair where you and the kids all got in the car and went to the drive in?
MR. HAYNES: Absolutely.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember how much it cost to get in?
MR. HAYNES: No I don't.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So you go into the drive in and kind of tell me what the tone was. What you did when you went to the drive-in?
MR. HAYNES: Well, mainly just watched the movie.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What I mean is, how did you hear the voice?
MR. HAYNES: Oh, they had a speaker that hooked on your door and drive-ins were kind of the place to go because you didn't have to have a babysitter.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	As the city has progressed over the years what have you seen happen to the city? Has it done good or poorly or is the jury still out about the city's progression? 
MR. HAYNES: Well, it seems like we have not been very competitive about getting people to live in Oak Ridge as compared to down in Knox County. And I think it is primarily because they could buy a lot bigger house for the same money out there and less taxes. I figure that's a lot of the reason people don't choose to live in Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	In your opinion, what would you like to see happen to Oak Ridge?
MR. HAYNES: Well, it's pretty good the way it is. It is a nice town to live in. And I guess I think they waste some money, but I guess I haven't seen to try to do something about it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	All the time you have lived in Oak Ridge did you have a need for the hospital care?
MR. HAYNES: I was very fortunate that way. I've been in the hospital one time.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you find the experience good, or bad, or just mediocre?
MR. HAYNES: Hospitals pretty much an asset in this town I think. They got [inaudible]
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about the dental opportunities in town?
MR. HAYNES: Well, I went to a dentist in Clinton in the early, early days and I have always stayed with them.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember doctors making house calls way back in the early days?
MR. HAYNES: No. They may have and I just didn't have occasion to use them.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Is there anything that we hadn't talked about that you would like to bring back up and talk.
MR. HAYNES: Hard to think about now.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Virgil, it has been my pleasure to interview you and I think that your oral history will be an asset to the city's history. Hopefully, one day someone that may be writing a term paper might pull up your history and read about what you just told me and be able to add that to their paper, so I thank you very much for your time.
MR. HAYNES: You are very welcome.

[End of Interview]     

[Editor’s Note: Portions of this transcript have been edited at Mr. Haynes request. The corresponding audio and video components have remained unchanged.]