Lowery, Johnnie

              
ORAL HISTORY OF JOHNNIE LOWERY
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
June 20, 2013
 
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is June, 20, 2013 and I am at the home of Johnnie Lowery here in Dutch Valley, I guess it is...
MRS. LOWERY: Yes, that's correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: Thank you for taking time to talk with us.
MRS. LOWERY: Well, you're more than welcome.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, let's start at the beginning. Why don't you tell me where you were born and raised -- something about your family.
MRS. LOWERY: Ok. I was born in Alcorn County, Mississippi. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Where is that?
MRS. LOWERY: That is in the north east corner of the state, near Corinth, Mississippi -- well, Corinth is in Alcorn County, of course, but it's about 100 miles south of Memphis.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. LOWERY: So, my family were farmers as just about everybody was back in the ‘30s and ‘40s. And, so, I was from a large family...
MR. MCDANIEL: How many brothers and sisters?
MRS. LOWERY: Seven children, so there were five girls and two boys. I was the third one in line.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did your family own their own farm?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes, yes they did. As I remember just about everybody had land. They didn't have much else but they had -- everybody had land and were farmers or cattle people. 
MR. MCDANIEL: What did your family farm do?
MRS. LOWERY: The biggest cash crop was cotton.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. LOWERY: And always in addition to the cash crop you had to grow corn and hay for your animals that you had and then, of course, your vegetables... lots of vegetables because you grew just about everything you ate and preserved it for the winter.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. What's your earliest memory of working in the farm? How old were you?
MRS. LOWERY: I was probably pre-school and my job was to carry water to the workers in the field.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MRS. LOWERY: My father did not have tractors, he had mules. He farmed exclusively with the mules and plows.
MR. MCDANIEL: How many acres was the farm?
MRS. LOWERY: Out of the 100 acres that he had -- that he owned -- I would say about 40 of them were in cultivation.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now, did he farm it all himself -- I mean, just the family -- or did he have other people that came in and worked for him?
MRS. LOWERY: At times, he had other people that came in and worked. The oldest brother in the family, the very oldest sibling, married and left the farm at 16 years of age so that left a 13 year old girl and myself -- I was nine -- so, we were not enough help for our father not with handling mules or, you know, heavy work like that, so he would work for somebody else -- maybe brother sometimes or cousins -- and then they would come over and help him do some plowing or heavy work until we got up to the age to where we could help a little bit more.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. So you went to school there, I guess.
MRS. LOWERY: I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you went to high school.
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you graduated high school.
MRS. LOWERY: Right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And what happened when you graduated high school? Were you planning on going to college or get a job or stay on the farm?
MRS. LOWERY: I had wanted to go to college -- Blue Mountain College -- but that didn't work out. Instead, I met my husband, married. He lived in the neighborhood about five miles from me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. LOWERY: He was an older gentleman and had already been in the Marine Corps. The war had ended and he was already back there and working.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Now, how many years, if you don't mind me asking, how many years older than you was he?
MRS. LOWERY: Nine years.
MR. MCDANIEL: And how old were you when you got married?
MRS. LOWERY: Seventeen.
MR. MCDANIEL: My mom and dad did the exact same thing happened. My Dad was 10 years older than my mother. They grew up across the street from each other and when he went into the service when he was 23, she was 13 and when he came home, she was 17 and all grown up, so... (laughter)
MRS. LOWERY: I see. That kind of sounds like our story.
MR. MCDANIEL: It does, doesn't it? So, you got married -- did you all live there?
MRS. LOWERY: We lived on the Lowery farm. Mr. Lowery had quite a few acres and a country store and I was to help in that country store. We did, in addition to cotton, we did some cattle. There was, like I said, 270 acres so there was plenty pasture land and we could have cattle.
MR. MCDANIEL: How did you end up leaving there?
MRS. LOWERY: Ok. Jobs. The cash crop, which was cotton, there was no longer much of a market for it. The war had ended. Lots of jobs were being found in the North at the automobile plants, as I remember. And he tried that for a couple of years and he did not like the North, he liked the South much better. So he came back to the South.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what was your husband's name?
MRS. LOWERY: Bobby. He was adopted by the Lowerys.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did you go with him when he went North?
MRS. LOWERY: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Or he just went on his own.
MRS. LOWERY: He did just go on his own, but no, I did not go. So, the only jobs that he could find there in northeast Mississippi was like temporary or carpentry work which was not a lot of pay.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. LOWERY: And he got a chance to come to the Oak Ridge area in 1954 for an interview and almost immediately they started to check his reference, his clearance and within about three months after his first interview, he was offered a job here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what did he do - what skills? You said he was in the service; I'm sure he had some training of some sort.
MRS. LOWERY: He was hired in as an inspector.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. LOWERY: And after a couple of years, some of those positions were done away with, and so they gave the employees an opportunity to bid out on other jobs in the plant. So he bid out for a machinist job which he had worked temporarily -- well, maybe not temporarily, but for a short time -- in a machine shop in Corinth, Mississippi, before we come up here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. Now, which plant was this? Was this Y-12?
MRS. LOWERY: It was. It was Y-12 and he worked there all his years. They would send him to the other plants periodically, but that would just be for the day.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. To help out, to do some special project, something like that. So, did he stay a machinist?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: At Y-12?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: His entire career?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: I guess if you're a machinist, Y-12 is the place to be because it was such an important machine shop, you know, for the country. Wasn't it?
MRS. LOWERY: I suppose so. I'm not sure. As I remember, everything was pretty hush-hush.
MR. MCDANIEL: So he worked on classified things?
MRS. LOWERY: Some, he did. Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. He didn't talk much about it, did he?
MRS. LOWERY: No. No he didn't.
MR. MCDANIEL: So what year did you move to Oak Ridge?
MRS. LOWERY: Moved shortly after he started working here in '54.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, '54...
MRS. LOWERY: He had to go on like a list for housing and when that became available before the end of the year, well then I came.
MR. MCDANIEL: You came. Now, did you have children at that time?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes, we did have children.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, all right. So when you came to join your husband, brought the kids, joined your husband. Where did you live first? 
MRS. LOWERY: We lived on Highland Avenue. Highland and Howard Lane.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. LOWERY: It was a duplex, very small, maybe eight or nine hundred square feet is what we had to live in. Very small space.
MR. MCDANIEL: But was assigned to you or did you find that on your own? Do you remember?
MRS. LOWERY: I'm not sure what you mean, Keith.
MR. MCDANIEL: I know when people came to work during the war people were assigned houses.
MRS. LOWERY: Yes, he was assigned that house before he ever made arrangements to come and get us moved or, actually they moved people. So, a moving van showed up there and stayed about three days to get us all packed up and moved.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, that was handy.
MRS. LOWERY: Back in the '50s, you know, at the end of your employment they also would move you back to where they moved you from.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MRS. LOWERY: And we were given the option did we want to go back and we didn't so we just waived our right to be moved back there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Now, when was that?
MRS. LOWERY: That was in '85.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, so even after all those years, 40 years later they offered to move you back?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes, there was a contract to move us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. So you moved to Oak Ridge. How many kids did you have?
MRS. LOWERY: Three.
MR. MCDANIEL: You had three at that time. You're living in this little, small duplex. How old were your kids then? They were little, I know.
MRS. LOWERY: Yes. Our son was probably five or six months old. The girls were three and four.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. So how long did you stay in that duplex?
MRS. LOWERY: About four years. And during that time, the city opened up and decided to sell a lot of their real estate -- the houses that the government had pretty much been furnishing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. LOWERY: And so, we had the most seniority in the duplex so we were able to purchase that little house.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. LOWERY: And could rent one end of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok, so you went ahead and bought the duplex and still lived in one end and rented the other.
MRS. LOWERY: We did. But it was on a busy street -- Highland Avenue -- and that was not a good situation for children that wanted to be adventuresome.
MR. MCDANIEL: Highland Avenue. Where is that?
MRS. LOWERY: Do you know where the museum is?
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, yeah. Sure.
MRS. LOWERY: Outer Drive. It takes you down to Robertsville.
MR. MCDANIEL: Robertsville, I know where it was, I just couldn't think of it. So, it was on a busy street, and you had these small kids.
MRS. LOWERY: So we looked for a place outside the city because he was a hunter -- my husband was a hunter -- and liked his dogs and he hadn't been able to bring his dogs to Oak Ridge (laughter). So, in '58, we moved out to an Oliver Springs address.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MRS. LOWERY: Found a one-family house there and moved into it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, right. And you stayed outside the city?
MRS. LOWERY: We have stayed outside the city ever since.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ever since. Now when did you -- you're on Dutch Valley Road, here, when did you move to this house?
MRS. LOWERY: I moved to this house in '79.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok...
MRS. LOWERY: We purchased a few acres of land here and built.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Now, you said your husband worked at Y-12 until '85, is that correct?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now did he retire?
MRS. LOWERY: He took a medical leave.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, I see. All right. And, I assume, he's passed away?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes, sir, he is.
MR. MCDANIEL: All right. When did he pass away?
MRS. LOWERY: 2009.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, 2009. In the meantime, you were raising your kids in Oak Ridge. Where did they go to school? Where did they start school?
MRS. LOWERY: The little girl started school at the Highland View School.
MR. MCDANIEL: Where the Children's Museum is now.
MRS. LOWERY: Right. And then when we moved out to Oliver Springs, of course, they went to Norwood.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Did you work, once the kids got older? Did you go to work?
MRS. LOWERY: I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: Tell me about that.
MRS. LOWERY: I started working in about '67 or '68, for a local grocery family, the French's. They had a supermarket in Oliver Springs, Oak Ridge, and Midtown, and so forth. So I went to work for them because I was thinking in terms, my oldest daughter, Linda, would soon be starting off to college and so I needed to help with the income.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. So you went to work. What did you do for them?
MRS. LOWERY: Well, I was called a courtesy counter clerk, but I ran the cash register, I racked the bottles, I did whatever. In other words, I supervised the front end -- the cashiers, the bag boys and the other people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. Now, how long did you stay with French's?
MRS. LOWERY: I stayed with them until '72.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MRS. LOWERY: And at that time, I moved over to the hospital.
MR. MCDANIEL: So what did you do at the hospital?
MRS. LOWERY: I worked in Human Resources -- we called it Personnel then -- Human Resources.
MR. MCDANIEL: So this was '72. Who owned the hospital at that point? Who ran it? It wasn't the city, was it?
MRS. LOWERY: No. The Army ran it from 1943 until ’48. Then the U.S. Government took over in 1949 until 1958 when Methodist Hospital owned it starting in 1959 until1995. Now, Covenant Health has owned it since 1996.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, all right... And it was where it is now.
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Only it just wasn't as nice as it is now.
MRS. LOWERY: Right. Not as many beds.
MR. MCDANIEL: And how long did you stay at the hospital?
MRS. LOWERY: I stayed until 1989 which was 17 years. And I left due to my husband's health.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Did you stay in Human Resources the entire time?
MRS. LOWERY: I did. I did. I started out as a secretary and then learned to recruit nurses and non-nursing people, laborers and so forth.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. LOWERY: Then, took over the Benefits Plan Program which was administered out of Human Resources.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, right. What was it like? Talk about the hospital, I mean, because it's always played a really important role in the history of Oak Ridge.
MRS. LOWERY: It has.
MR. MCDANIEL: So talk about it while you were there. Some of the changes that you saw, whether they were good or bad, you know, the growth of the hospital. As much as you want to, as much as you're comfortable with.
MRS. LOWERY: Ok, it seemed like they were constantly building and adding to from the time that I went there in '72, seemed like there was always construction going on. We were always wading through mud to get inside, just like the plants had all that mud to contend with when they were getting the project started. And, I guess some of the things I noticed most of all was that it was unionized. It became unionized. And I had never worked with any situation like that so that was a little...
MR. MCDANIEL: It was a challenge.
MRS. LOWERY: It was a challenge -- it was different.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it frustrating?
MRS. LOWERY: It was frustrating. I guess I had always been taught or believed that, you know if you have problems go directly to the people instead of having a mediator do it for you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. LOWERY: But we made it through, getting the union there and their contracts written up and so forth. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now, you left, you said, in '89?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did Covenant own it by then?
MRS. LOWERY: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was still...?
MRS. LOWERY: It was still Methodist Medical Center
MR. MCDANIEL: The group that had had it for so many years...
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: I see. And I can't remember… I know that but I can't remember who it was... Who are some of the folks you interacted with that you can remember?
MRS. LOWERY: Well, Marshall Whisnant was our president there for as long as I worked there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. LOWERY: And Ralph Lillard was the vice president and Betty Cantwell was vice president in charge of nursing and, of course, whoever my boss was, was head of the other offices and so forth. So I had Shirley Walker -- Shirley McClain at one point  -- then I had Larry Vaughn.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you didn't live... So you lived in Oliver Springs, or outside the city of Oak Ridge, but, you know, it's really kind of all the same area. I'm sure you went to Oak Ridge, just like everybody else did, to shop and do things such as that as much as you can.
MRS. LOWERY: I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was life like from when you first came here in '58? I guess my question is, kind of reflect on some of the changes you've seen over the last 40 or 50 years.
MRS. LOWERY: Oh, Ok, well in the late ‘50s, the biggest changes were that we were beginning to get big supermarket chains in here and department stores and, you know, the town was really growing. We were getting some more streets and so forth. When I first came here in '54, only just a few grocery stores and they didn't have very many items. Not that we did in Mississippi either, but, you know, I guess I expected living near Knoxville that they would have. I think there was one department store in Oak Ridge and I remember I had to go to Knoxville to buy clothing for the children.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you? My goodness.
MRS. LOWERY: But the little tiny grocery stores -- and they all sold gas, the best I remember, had a little pump out front where you could get your gas.
MR. MCDANIEL: And they've kind of gone back to that now, haven't they? 
MRS. LOWERY: Yeah, yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: The big supermarkets now are selling ...
MRS. LOWERY: Well, yeah, Kroger’s is doing that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. What else do you remember?
MRS. LOWERY: Well, just the closeness of the apartment houses and people living so close to you. If you remember, I said I came off of a farm and we didn't have close neighbors. Our yards were really small there in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: I guess that was a big adjustment for you, wasn't it?
MRS. LOWERY: It was. I couldn't get used to hearing other people talk when, like when we'd go to bed at night, you could hear them. Because we didn't have air conditioning, those little units that the government furnished didn't -- none of them were air conditioned that I remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. You could hear people down the street or next door.
MRS. LOWERY: Next door and the other end of the house from you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly.
MRS. LOWERY: So the privacy, you know, was kind of non-existing.
MR. MCDANIEL: So I bet when you moved here you kind of liked it -- kind of get back to the way it was.
MRS. LOWERY: It is quieter, definitely.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was it like for the kids growing up in that era? In that era, in this area?
MRS. LOWERY: Well, I think they were pretty much, you know, like they'd have been anywhere they were. They were just children. They were eager to learn, they were eager to make friends, to make sure that they got their education, and that they participated in sports and music and things of that nature.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. Just what normal kids do.
MRS. LOWERY: Just what normal kids do.
MR. MCDANIEL: What about you? I know it would be hard to get involved in a lot of other activities when you got kids at home and family and things such as that, but did you join any groups or have any clubs you attended?
MRS. LOWERY: I did not. I attended church and, you know, that was it.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was it.
MRS. LOWERY: Yes, outside of the school activities where I would be a Brownie leader, a 4-H Club leader.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. LOWERY: It just seemed to pretty much be my children.
MR. MCDANIEL: And I would imagine you would have been a pretty good 4-H Club leader, growing up on the farm, wouldn't you? (laughter)
MRS. LOWERY: I enjoyed it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you? You know, I don't know if they even have 4-H Clubs now.
MRS. LOWERY: They do!
MR. MCDANIEL: They do?
MRS. LOWERY: They do, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: You don't hear much about them anymore.
MRS. LOWERY: They've got Future Farmers of America now and whatever, but they do still have 4-H Clubs.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, sure. Let's talk just a little bit about your husband and his work at Y-12, as much as you can. Like you said, he didn't talk much about it.
MRS. LOWERY: No, sir.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you all have friends with other folks, maybe some of his friends, that you all got to know from work?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes, definitely. Very interesting friends. Of course, he started out working shift work, you know. All three shifts and that was pretty traumatic with three small children in a small area. But, you know, we survived and the years went on and then he was able to get a day shift. Then, as the years went on, they put him on a straight second shift, but with weekends off.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MRS. LOWERY: And so that was helpful. And then, back to days. As you got seniority, you could bid on these openings.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, you get a better slot, be easier for you.
MRS. LOWERY: So when he came out in '85, he was on Monday through Friday, 8 to 4:30, weekends off.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is there anything that he did or any projects that he did that he told you about? I mean, things that were, maybe, not classified. Because I know they had some kind of high profile things that they did there.
MRS. LOWERY: I remember one. He told me he helped work on the Moon Box.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did he really?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes. And he could talk about that, I guess, pretty openly, and tell the children about it. And I know that they have the Moon Box that went to the Moon at the New Hope Center -- I believe I'm right about that -- or a duplicate.
MR. MCDANIEL: It's a duplicate. They made, what they did is they end up making, as I recall, a dozen or so.
MRS. LOWERY: Oh, ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: And I think the one that actually went to the Moon is in the Smithsonian.
MRS. LOWERY: Oh, ok... that would sound right.
MR. MCDANIEL: But the one that's at the New Hope Center is exactly - was made exactly the same.
MRS. LOWERY: Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, now was there any other projects that he worked on that you recall that he mentioned that he could talk about?
MRS. LOWERY: I don't recall that he talked too much about anything else. But I know he became friends with co-workers, in the early years, they had ball teams -- softball teams and things of that nature -- and he participated in those and so that was an outlet for me and the children, too, we could go.
MR. MCDANIEL: He enjoyed that?
MRS. LOWERY: He enjoyed that.
MR. MCDANIEL: What did he play? Baseball? Softball?
MRS. LOWERY: Softball.
MR. MCDANIEL: Softball. That's good. So, you all participated in the community, you were part of the community just like you would be anywhere, I imagine. Is there anything that you remember about Oak Ridge, or the area that really stands out in your mind. Any big events, any big things that would really last in your memory?
MRS. LOWERY: Ok...
MR. MCDANIEL: People?
MRS. LOWERY: Well, some of the activities. I always enjoyed the Playhouse, the concerts, the Oak Ridge Orchestra.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. LOWERY: I bowled.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you? Ok.
MRS. LOWERY: These were some of the things that I enjoyed very much. And the Bissell Park. I always enjoy just walking and exercising and just enjoying Mother Nature there.
MR. MCDANIEL: I imagine that had you stayed in Mississippi, you know, possibly your life would have been a lot different than what it was in Oak Ridge.
MRS. LOWERY: It possibly would have been. So I'm thankful for the chance to have come to Oak Ridge and East Tennessee and meet all the interesting people I've met. I've made some lasting friends, you know, and some of them I've known since almost from the time I got here, and it was through my husband's work at the plant. They worked the same shifts.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, do your children, do they live close? Do they live around here?
MRS. LOWERY: Our son lives in Knoxville, but he went away for a while after high school, but then he came back here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. LOWERY: The oldest daughter, Linda, went to school at Tennessee Tech, so she settled in that area. Her son and his children live there now so, naturally, she wants to be in Cookeville. Our daughter, Judy, is back in the Corinth, Mississippi area. She went here and there and did different things, but then she decided she wanted to come back and be near the relatives there. All my relatives are there now. She built a house on a portion of the land that I inherited.
MR. MCDANIEL: After your husband passed away, why did you stay? Why didn't you go back to Mississippi?
MRS. LOWERY: Well, I've been here for so many years, you know, and I love East Tennessee. I like the climate. I like the landscape. I like the people. I like it being close to the mountains and the things that Oak Ridge offers retirees -- or non-retirees...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. What did you know about Oak Ridge when you first came here? Did you know very much about it?
MRS. LOWERY: Absolutely nothing except that it was a “Secret City,” it had gates, you had to stop at a guard station to get in and to get out and that was about all I'd ever heard.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really? What was your first impression when you first came here?
MRS. LOWERY: Well, as we drove in by the Kingston area and, let's see, that would have been K-25, that area.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, sure.
MRS. LOWERY: It was just beginning to come daybreak -- we had driven all night with the children. And I thought the landscape was so beautiful and the rivers, you know the water we were crossing and so forth. And then I noticed the evergreens, the cedars, we don't have cedars like that in Mississippi, and I thought all those cedars were so pretty. I just thought the landscape was really beautiful here.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. But, I guess when you got into Oak Ridge, you kind of expected more, didn't you, than what was there?
MRS. LOWERY: I did. As you well know, there was just little communities where you could buy food and buy gas.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. LOWERY: And no actual city, as we know of, and I was expecting that, you know. Actually, only a couple shopping centers that I remember which were Grove Center and Jackson Square.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MRS. LOWERY: And, so, it was different. It was quite different from what I had pictured on my drive up here that Sunday night.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when you grew up, what was the closest town to you where you grew up in Mississippi?
MRS. LOWERY: The closest town was Corinth, Mississippi.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did it have a traditional town square?
MRS. LOWERY: It did. Courthouse and all that good stuff.
MR. MCDANIEL: Good Southern town square?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oak Ridge didn't have one of those.
MRS. LOWERY: No.
MR. MCDANIEL: Still doesn't have one of those! (laughter)
MRS. LOWERY: (laughs) No.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's one of the things they've always said about Oak Ridge -- it doesn't have a Downtown, which is kind of unusual. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Anything else you want to comment on? Now is a good time. Are you interested in Oak Ridge? I mean, in its history now?
MRS. LOWERY: Yes! I am. I enjoy riding relatives around to show them points of interest and telling them a little bit about it when they come into town. Like I always brag about the swimming pool -- the Olympic size swimming pool. And the museum. I think the museum's just a wonderful place to take people that don't know a lot about our city and our part of the country. And now with the New Hope Center, that's great.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MRS. LOWERY: And we're not that far from Knoxville, if we want to go shopping.
MR. MCDANIEL: That is true. We're not that far from Knoxville which that's handy.
MRS. LOWERY: I think they have a really good school system in Oak Ridge. I really do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. Well, anything else?
MRS. LOWERY: Not very talkative today, am I, Keith? (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's ok! You did fine! Just fine!
MRS. LOWERY: We do have the beautiful area of the Milton Hill Lake there that's very nice for rowing and walking and watching the geese and things of that nature. Of course, the housing has come a long way since the mid-50s.
MR. MCDANIEL: You said your husband was a hunter. I bet he enjoyed this area, didn't he?
MRS. LOWERY: He did. He hunted grouse for the first time. I'd never heard the term, didn't know what a grouse was, but he hunted grouse over in the New River area.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, tell me, so people will know, what is a grouse?
MRS. LOWERY: Well, it's wild game. It's very hard to kill, but it is really tasty. It's a little larger than a quail, but smaller than a pheasant.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. So it's a bird.
MRS. LOWERY: It's a bird. And it blends in really well, I'm told, with the landscape. You can hardly detect them at all.
MR. MCDANIEL: But he liked it. He liked being close to the mountains and being able to go and hunt.
MRS. LOWERY: And fish.
MR. MCDANIEL: And fish.
MRS. LOWERY: The whole family started to fish and enjoy the water ways around here. Watts Bar, we enjoyed that while the children were growing up. Had our own place there to live in the summer time, we just moved down when school was out, then back in the fall.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right? Where was that? South of Kingston.
MRS. LOWERY: Yes. It was the Sportsman's Club.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah, sure. Right. I know where that is.
MRS. LOWERY: And we had our own boat, or own runaround boat. They learned to swim, learned to ski, learned to have fun. We were up and down the river quite a bit. Their dad continued to work the day shift.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was handy.
MRS. LOWERY: He'd just go to work and we'd get up and get in the boat. Instead of going by car around to the boat docks where you could get Cokes and bread, we'd go by boat.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, absolutely!
MRS. LOWERY: So, that was a lot of fun. I enjoyed fishing quite a bit.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you? Well, there were a number of people that lived in Oak Ridge that had little places on the lake down there. I know that. But y'all just... when school was out, y'all would just move down there, didn't you?
MRS. LOWERY: We did. We had a trailer that we'd put on property there, and by then we were prosperous enough that we could afford two vehicles. So, I had one -- the children and I -- then he had his to go to work in. But yeah, we had a variety of people down there to interact with. Doctors and lawyers and merchants and chiefs and plain folks like the Lowery’s. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, good. All right. Is there anything else?
MRS. LOWERY: Nothing comes to mind right now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, well thank you so much for taking time to talk to us.
MRS. LOWERY: You're more than welcome. I've enjoyed it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Very good. Thank you.
[End of Interview]

[Editor’s Note: This transcript has been edited at Mrs. Lowery’s request. The corresponding audio and video components have not been changed.]