Bilbrey, Dewie

              
ORAL HISTORY OF DEWIE BILBREY
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
October 29, 2013
 
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is October 29, 2013, and I am at the home of Mr. Dewie Bilbrey in... And is this a Lenoir City address?
MR. BILBREY: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, very good. Mr. Bilbrey, thank you for taking time to talk with us.
MR. BILBREY: Thank you, Mr. McDaniel. It's an honor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's start at the beginning. Why don't you tell me where you were born and raised?
MR. BILBREY: I'll be happy to do that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: I was born in Overton County, that's in Middle Tennessee, and I was born within the area circumscribed by Standing Stone State Park. Actually, I was born just about a half a mile below the dam.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. BILBREY: That's true. And as you may note, that was 1929, year of the Great Depression.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Now, what did your... What did your family do? What did your dad do?
MR. BILBREY: My dad did, primarily, sharecropping. There were three of us boys. I'm the middle one. And he worked at various jobs on WPA. Never jobs that paid very much money.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And most of the people in this area at that time were rather poor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Certainly we were in that category.
MR. MCDANIEL: And your mom, was she just a homemaker? Was she a homemaker or did she work?
MR. BILBREY: Yes. She really never did other jobs outside the home.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... And you said you were the middle child, is that correct?
MR. BILBREY: I'm the middle child.
MR. MCDANIEL: And all boys.
MR. BILBREY: All boys. My other two brothers remained in Overton County.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. BILBREY: And they have worked in that county in school systems throughout their career, also. And my older brother passed away this February. He had been in education for about 57 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. BILBREY: I believe in various capacities.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow, my goodness. So you ... All three of you became educators.
MR. BILBREY: We did that.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, your dad was a sharecropper, it was the Great Depression in the beginning when you were born and you didn't have very much like most people in that time.
MR. BILBREY: That's correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: What instilled in you to become an educator? And your brothers?
MR. BILBREY: I don't know that I could speak for my brothers, but for myself, I more or less, got in it by default. It's a long story...
MR. MCDANIEL: That's ok...
MR. BILBREY: And perhaps somewhere in the conversation we'll be able to cover that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: But I'm certainly happy that I did get into it. It's been a very pleasant experience. Rewarding for me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was your mother and father, I mean, were they educated? Did they...?
MR. BILBREY: No. (laughs) Not very far in education and I don't know how to estimate. Probably no more than fourth or fifth grade.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. BILBREY: And they were determined, though, to make things better for us and they gave us all the help that they could.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...So, you graduated from high school, what year?
MR. BILBREY: Well, it was 1947.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: I might point out that I attended a one-room schoolhouse and there was only one teacher, of course, and about 30 students. Having been a teacher myself, I can certainly sympathize with the job they had.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now was it... was it... What grades was the schoolhouse?
MR. BILBREY: Well, one through eight and you can imagine the conglomerate of courses that that poor teacher was supposed to cover.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, I'm sure.
MR. BILBREY: Not all of them got covered.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. BILBREY: And I'll tell you a little bit about one of the schools that I attended.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: As a matter of fact, I have a photograph of it. The schoolhouse was in a white, boarded building. And, oh, it was probably about 30 by 50 feet, dimensions, I guess. If you looked at it from the front, then the boys' outhouse would be on the right, the girls' on the left. And the way you got the privilege to go out to this was by placing a book in the door. Sometimes there would be a stack of books and it was a very taxing situation for the teacher to keep order and so forth. There was no electricity, no running water in the building. There was a hand-pump well right in front of the building and for drinking water, it would be pumped into a bucket and brought in. There was a dipper. Everyone had to dip the water out of that bucket and put it into a cup they brought from home.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Sometimes, if you didn't have a cup, everyone knew how to make a paper cup out of a notebook sheet. One incident I remember that was a little bit amusing -- not to the teacher, I'm sure. But, the library was in the back of the room. There was a table. Around the table there were nail kegs of the wooden variety, perhaps all of them are, and it was turned upside down and painted green.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: So if you wanted to do library work, you went back to that table. And there was one rather mischievous boy there, he would sit on one of those kegs and he'd coax somebody else into kicking it out from under him. It'd roll out in the floor and he'd roll behind it and, needless to say, that would cause quite an uproar. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: But, eventually, we all got through and it was a great experience. I concentrated... We were allowed to work on our own ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you?
MR. BILBREY: ... much of the time. And I concentrated more on math, I think, than any other one thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: In the eight years -- you said eight years, first through ...
MR. BILBREY: Yes. 
MR. MCDANIEL: ...the eighth grade...
MR. BILBREY: Correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: How many teachers did you have?
MR. BILBREY: You mean in those schools?
MR. MCDANIEL: In those schools. I mean, did you change schools?
MR. BILBREY: I went the first seven years at a school called Palestine and I would guess there were probably as many as five different teachers. I can't be sure of that. And the other school, where I completed the eighth grade, of course, just one.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Those teachers didn't last very long in those, did they?  
MR. BILBREY: Well...
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that what it was? Could they...?
MR. BILBREY: It was politics, partly, and they changed teachers frequently.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: But I can understand why the teacher might want to change very well. (laughter) 
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm certain of that. So, when you got through with eighth grade, where did you go to high school?
MR. BILBREY: I entered at Livingston Academy.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: And this was a far better situation. We had specialized teachers in the various areas. I took all the math courses and science courses I could take. I was interested more in those subjects. English and history, I took because I had to take those. One thing did happen to me. After the sophomore year in high school, I was 16 years old and my parents were struggling to send us to high school, actually.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was ... Was this a private school? Or public school...?
MR. BILBREY: Oh, you might guess that from the name. It was run by a church and it was so until the year I graduated, then it was turned over to the state or county.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did your parents have to pay for you to go?
MR. BILBREY: No, you didn't have to pay, you had to buy your books.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. BILBREY: Which, they were much cheaper than they are now, but that was a pretty big job. After the sophomore year, I went to Akron, Ohio, to work. And I got a job in the B.F. Goodrich. Actually, World War II was going on at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. BILBREY: I got assigned to the hose department and this was my first real exposure to the Northern Yankees. I worked with a couple and he was trying to teach me how to do all of this work and, perhaps, I was a little slow at learning and sometimes he'd lose his temper. We were inspecting bullet seal hose for the military at that time. I'd worked there for two months during that summer. Saved $400 which was... That was rich for me.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was a lot of money...
MR. BILBREY: Yes. And I travelled back to attend the last two years and I had enough money to buy hamburgers and do the various things that many kids did.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Actually, I think I gave my parents a little bit of that $400.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. 'Cause it was tough. It was tough for everybody.
MR. BILBREY: It was tough for everybody.
MR. MCDANIEL: And, I guess, at that point you were old enough to go and work.
MR. BILBREY: I don't think you could now and it would be difficult to get a job.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: But during the war they hired practically everyone.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. So how old were you that summer?
MR. BILBREY: I was 16 at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sixteen... Wow.
MR. BILBREY: So I was probably a little immature to be thrust into that job.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you went and you... Nobody went with you, did they?
MR. BILBREY: I did have some relatives up there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: So that made it a little more tenable.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: I think.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. So you came back ...
MR. BILBREY: And I came back, finished high school, graduated in '47.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And, yes, the war had ended then, but I didn't have money to go to college, certainly. So I borrowed the money and went to Detroit, Michigan, and that place was teeming with automobile factories and people from the South that had come up to work there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: So there was no trouble getting a job there, either. And I got a job at Chrysler. I worked at a place called Kaiser-Frazer, which is out of existence now. It didn't last very long. Worked at a place called Hudson Motor Car Company and some other places. I stayed in Detroit three years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: And I changed jobs frequently.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Those places were frequently shut down for some reason, a strike or... And I wanted to obtain all the money I could.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: To attend college. And I intended to do that as soon as possible. And so, I worked at those jobs for three years. While in Detroit, I really didn't do very many real exciting things. It was real: you go to work, eat, cooking myself.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I saved $5,500, I remember.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. BILBREY: I remember these numbers because money was so hard to come by during that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. BILBREY: At the end of the three years, I was able to go back to college. I will, perhaps, cover that in a minute.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: While in Detroit, I do remember Harry Truman coming there to make his kick-off speech in '48. Needless to say, the place downtown was covered with people. It's a union town.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And he was winding up for that 'Give them Hell' campaign that he carried on. Also, while there, I remember seeing Joe Louis in a sparring match. He had been kind of an idol when I was growing up. I would go to a neighbor's house to hear the boxing matches, so that was kind of a thrill to see him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that was kind of a big city, though, I mean, Detroit...
MR. BILBREY: It was a very big city and, at that time, a very prosperous city.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: Unfortunately, that's not the case...
MR. MCDANIEL: That's not the case anymore...
MR. BILBREY: ...today.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, now what about...? I was going to ask you about the military... the military...?
MR. BILBREY: That came later, which I'll be happy to discuss that...
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. Sure.
MR. BILBREY: ... at the appropriate time or even now...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, let's talk about it ...
MR. BILBREY: Although there is a phase leading up to that.
MR. MCDANIEL: All right, well, tell me about that.
MR. BILBREY: Well, I came back to my home to attend college. I enrolled at TPI, we called it then, Tennessee Polytechnic Institute. It's a university now. There were about 1,800 students there...
MR. MCDANIEL: Was that Tennessee Tech?
MR. BILBREY: Yes, Tennessee Tech.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And while there, I did enroll in ROTC. In fact, I think I would have been drafted if I had not enrolled...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: ... in that school. And I took a major called Natural Science Chemistry.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: It consisted of more chemistry than anything else but quite a bit of biology and just 12 hours of physics which turned out to be some problem later in my teaching. I also altered my schedule there, since I was getting a broad smattering of science courses, so that I could attend medical school at University of Tennessee at Memphis.
MR. MCDANIEL: So that was your plan is you wanted to go to...
MR. BILBREY: Well, it was in the back of my mind. I was toying with what I should do and I decided that it wouldn't be a great change to alter my course plan.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And if I could obtain the grade level then I could do that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And, as it turns out, I was able to do that and I did send my record to the school. They accepted me but, of course, I could not go then because I was in ROTC and I was facing some military service. Two years. Also while there, I took some courses in education that would qualify me, or at least allow me to get in to a school teaching. I don't think I should go so far as to say 'qualify' (laughter) because it certainly did not.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: I graduated from TTU in 1954.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I was waiting for my call to the military.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that's when the Korea...
MR. BILBREY: I missed it because, I believe, the Korean Conflict was over, I think, now let me see, a little bit before.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was over in '53, maybe?
MR. BILBREY: I think that's right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. But anyway, you missed it because it had ended.
MR. BILBREY: I did indeed. So after I completed this at Tech and then was I called in September. September, 20, '54, to Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: I was an officer. Well, I did get a commission at TTU after the ROTC program was completed and I had completed my course work. So at Ft. Monmouth, I completed the officers' basic course. At the end of that, there was another six-weeks course in meteorology. Well this fit into my science, sort of, background. I was interested in it, so I took that short course, probably about six weeks.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: After that, I was transferred to Ft. Huachuca, Arizona, which is way down South in Arizona.
MR. MCDANIEL: Hot.
MR. BILBREY: Very hot. (laughter) They had just reactivated the post. It was an old post that had been used to fight Indians, I understand.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. BILBREY: Very near the Mexican border. I didn't stay there very long. After, I got transferred to Dugway Proving Grounds.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: That post was about 1,200 north and it's about 80 miles from Salt Lake City.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: On the edge of the salt flats.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And that is a chemical warfare proving grounds at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Of course, that type of warfare has been thrown out.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: It's not practiced by the United States. But it was a highly classified sort of work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Weather had been transferred to the Air Force and they had most of the weather. However some Army units were bringing back weather people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I was assigned to this unit that contained about 40 enlisted men, two officers and eventually, after the senior officer left, I got to take over that unit.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was your rank at this point?
MR. BILBREY: Well, either second or first lieutenant. You can't hope to make, I think, unless it's wartime...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: ... more than first lieutenant in that two years. And besides, I can't say that I was that dedicated since I had to put in my two years...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. BILBREY: ...and I did not intend to stay any longer in the military after that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: This unit I supervised, well it contained a highly technical group of people, primarily engineers. And this group would go out near the salt flats, set up weather equipment, send up balloons, so forth. Get wind speed, cloud cover and overcast, all that stuff, identify the clouds... And the Chemical Corps would set off the test. Certain conditions have got to prevail before you use that sort of warfare.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, sure, of course.
MR. BILBREY: Well, September 20, '56, I was discharged and I came back home. And still playing around with this idea of going to med school. I thought it was a rather big undertaking where I was starting from.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: So, I did however, decide that I would give myself a chance to go. So I went back to TTU and enrolled in some more science classes to get back in the habit of study.
MR. MCDANIEL: (sneezes) 'Scuse me.
MR. BILBREY: Which I... Here...
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: Which I knew I would have to do...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: ...in Memphis, if I decided to go there. Well, after that quarter which ended about Christmas I decided since I had lost ...
MR. MCDANIEL: (coughs) Excuse me.
MR. BILBREY: ...about five years due to the military and work, that if I decided to enroll in med school, well I would have had to borrow money.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And if I didn't like it, there could not a doubt to it...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: ... then this would be a pretty big hole to get out of.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: So, I decided to pursue some other avenue of endeavor. And a fellow by the name of 'Red Hot' Hancock gave up a school at Monroe Elementary School. He went to Copperhill, I recall. So they needed somebody desperately to fill in at school. So I took that job and was principal, taught the eighth grade and the eighth grade teacher had to supervise the basketball team. (laughter) I didn't know anything about the basketball team. This was a really big job, those folks that are principals in counties like that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. BILBREY: Well, after that position, I did not want to remain in that sort of job.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Because most of my training had been in science and such. So, I applied to Oak Ridge school system.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I also applied to the Lab in Oak Ridge. Also I applied to the Nashville school system and 'til this day I've not heard from Nashville. (laughter) Well, as it turns out, the superintendent in Oak Ridge called me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: And I came over to Oak Ridge, stayed in the Alexander Inn.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what year was this?
MR. BILBREY: Well, that would have been '57.
MR. MCDANIEL: '57.
MR. BILBREY: Spring of '57.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I went down to the superintendent's office for an interview.
MR. MCDANIEL: Who was the superintendent at the time?
MR. BILBREY: Well, that was Mr. Cushman.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: There was no school board, so he had more power than your normal superintendent.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Dr. Thomas was the assistant. And he called Mr. Dunnigan, who was principal of the high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: They needed a physics teacher.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: Well. I had 12 hours of physics. That was not my chosen field; certainly, but Mr. Dunnigan took me to the high school, showed me around the place. And that was really something to see, coming from where I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: The school had been built in '52. All of that glass and... beautiful school. Perhaps the best school in Tennessee for a science teacher.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, absolutely.
MR. BILBREY: Especially... Mr. Dunnigan showed me about, showed me the physics room and labs and so forth. There were about 1,200 students there. I remember he pointed out that's somewhat ideal for a high school. There are enough students to offer all the courses, yet it's small enough so, you know, one can know most of the people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: I was certainly impressed with the high school. I went back down to the superintendent's office, I guess, about noon time and, since I had applied to the Lab and they agreed to interview me, I really wanted to go out there for an interview.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: However, I tried to stall a little bit, but superintendent said, "In that drawer I've got a stack of applications about that high." I don't know whether he was bluffing or not, (laughter) but I decided a bird in the hand might be better than going out a clown.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I was impressed with what I saw there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: So I signed the papers to enter teaching at Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was in the spring of '57?
MR. BILBREY: That's correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you started...? Did you start that fall?
MR. BILBREY: I started that fall, in '57.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, let me ask you a question: We were... You might be talking about this. One... And they needed a physics teacher.
MR. BILBREY: That's correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: And you'd had 12 hours.
MR. BILBREY: That's right, but physics teachers were hard to find.
MR. MCDANIEL: But if you're going to teach physics in Oak Ridge you better know what you're talking about. (laughter)
MR. BILBREY: (laughs) I learned. The hard way.
MR. MCDANIEL: I bet, I bet.
MR. BILBREY: I've... Well, they were going to pay me $3,450 for the year. They were placing me two steps up on the salary scale at that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow. Right.
MR. BILBREY: So that was a good salary.
MR. MCDANIEL: I bet.
MR. BILBREY: Probably not what the plants were paying...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. But for a teacher...
MR. BILBREY: But it was a respectable salary. The courses they gave me were three classes of physics, one of biology and one of physical science.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: That's about 150 students.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And those three classes of physics, as you might guess, were perhaps the most gifted students in our school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. BILBREY: And I just kind of got in this by default and I had not really thought very much about what all of this entailed. I guess I was surprised that students don't necessarily just want to study and learn, you got to use some persuasion of various kinds.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Well, this was a learning situation, needless to say.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. BILBREY: Tough year. Toughest in my life, I believe.
MR. MCDANIEL: Was it really?
MR. BILBREY: I remember I told Mr. Dunnigan about the middle of the year, if he could get another physics teacher I would be willing to go someplace else. (laughter) Got to hand it to Mr. Dunnigan, he saw something in me I don't think I knew about.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: He encouraged me to stay on and I struggled through it for the rest of the year.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: I think I probably gained some amount of confidence, ended the year. Some of those people turned out to be highly successful -- I take no credit for it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: But there's many students in Oak Ridge that will do that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And there's ... Many of those students that were in that class would become doctors, engineers, you have it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: After that year, he transferred me to chemistry teaching...
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: 'Cause Mack Franklin, the chemistry teacher, went back to his hometown. And so, I got the course I really wanted. One thing I should mention to here...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: ...is during my first year, '57-'58, Sputnik went up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh.
MR. BILBREY: That really brought about a revolution in the United States. Science teaching... 
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: People were somewhat unhappy with science throughout the nation. They wanted to know how it could be increased.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: How they could strengthen science teachers, give them more content to teach. Of course, that was the year I was teaching physics and the emphasis was falling on that course. So this fact, that more science was forced into school and more substantial science was in keeping with what I really wanted to do. One thing I might mention from that first year, '57-'58, the Clinton school was bombed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And, of course, that caused a lot of problems in that community. Oak Ridge High School had been integrated, I believe, in '55 and I think one other junior high school was integrated. It was no real problem at our high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. BILBREY: There weren't large numbers of Black students, but it had gone rather smoothly, I guess, as one might suppose. The folks in Oak Ridge are tolerant and open-minded and so forth.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: The factor was one Black teacher, Fred Brown. He was a highly respected teacher there and so it was kind of a milestone. I know it caused a lot of problems throughout the country...
MR. MCDANIEL: Absolutely.
MR. BILBREY: ...if not Oak Ridge. Well, after Sputnik went up, then the government started offering various remedial courses throughout the nation. The Science Foundation was sponsoring these courses and that was great for me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Let's see, before that, though, I might mention that I did get a Master's degree at Peabody and Vanderbilt.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: I got an MA degree in chemistry. That was in '63.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. BILBREY: And that was the course I was teaching.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now how did you do that? Did you do it in the summers or at night?
MR. BILBREY: In the summers. I went four summers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: One of those summers was at Vanderbilt, three were at Peabody.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: Of course, Peabody was a great teachers' school...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: ...and Vanderbilt was a more substantial science and engineering.
MR. MCDANIEL: And they're basically right across the street from each other anyway.
MR. BILBREY: Yes, they are and they're all one, now.
MR. MCDANIEL: You're right, right, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: And, of course, the courses were transferrable so whatever I took at Vanderbilt I could transfer. But anyway, I got a Master's degree...
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: ... in '63...
MR. MCDANIEL: And in '63 you were still teaching chemistry...
MR. BILBREY: That's correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: ... at the high school.
MR. BILBREY: And, I'm going to have to back up here just a little bit.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, that's fine.
MR. BILBREY: During the '58-'59 year, at one of those ETEA science meetings, I met my present wife. Well, I've only got one wife -- had one wife. Well, I met Suzanne. She was a teacher at Bristol and she came down to Knoxville to the science teachers'... Not the science teachers' this was an overall meeting of teachers in East Tennessee. And after that, I started going to East Tennessee quite often on Saturdays.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Her home was in Johnson City. She was teaching in Bristol.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And she would come to her home in Johnson City and that went on for... Well, until 1961.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: To be exact.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And we got married at that time. That was a great thing that happened to me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: She was a special lady and on top of that, her father grew flowers. He was running greenhouses and he made ice cream. He sold these things.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And how lucky can you get? (laughter) A lady that can teach school and flowers...
MR. MCDANIEL: And make ice cream.
MR. BILBREY: That was great for me. I began to understand why I made the right decision about going to med school.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: And things were getting more tolerable. I was beginning to like teaching. Certainly always thought it was a great profession.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did you like Oak Ridge?
MR. BILBREY: Oh, I thought Oak Ridge was a special place, and still do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: It... A lot of enrichment activities, especially for science teachers. And I think that would have been my favorite place to teach if I had had a choice.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly. I would think science teachers, particularly in Oak Ridge, would be, you know, well regarded.
MR. BILBREY: That's true. It comes... Science teaching comes with some price. I mean, there are so many scientists and some of these have special ideas as to... But all in all, I feel comfortable saying it was one of the best schools in Tennessee if not the best.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you have many instances of kids saying, you know, you're talking about one particular subject or one particular thing, and a child would say, "You know, my father said..." and that would contradict what you were saying?
MR. BILBREY: Yes. Well, normally that didn't happen. In fact, I think I would have been happy if the student had said that. Then I would have known that they are interested.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. BILBREY: I remember one topic, however, that I was covering and there was a scientist in the Lab, a nice fellow, actually. I don't name the name, but ... And I forget the topic now, but he did write me a letter about something that he thought was probably not quite right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: And it turns out he had helped write a textbook and I dug up that textbook and looked in it and, lo and behold, it said what I had been teaching. (laughter) But you did get a little of that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: But, all in all, people are very supportive in Oak Ridge and I can't think of a better place. Great teachers, too. I can't say too much about the teachers.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that's... You know, I think that's kind of a tradition from the very beginning of Oak Ridge school system is they wanted to bring in really good teachers.
MR. BILBREY: And I think they did. There was a minimum of politics.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And that's another reason I liked it, coming from a county like I came from.
MR. MCDANIEL: A 'good ol' boy' county.
MR. BILBREY: Yeah. If you were not on the right side of politics, you probably wouldn't get a job.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: But Oak Ridge... And they'd bring people in from the nation, there's a big cross-section, so there's some great teachers there. And you can learn much by sitting in the lounge and talking to them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, I'm sure.
MR. BILBREY: As I mention, the Science Foundation courses, I was able to apply to a considerable number of those and get accepted.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: And I would say that being a teacher at Oak Ridge High School gave me some leverage because Oak Ridge High School was recognized throughout the county... throughout the...
MR. MCDANIEL: Country.
MR. BILBREY: ... country, for sure.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And I attended, one summer, Bowdoin College in Maine, and one summer I attended Brown College, Providence, Rhode Island.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: One summer, I attended Hope College, Holland, Michigan; one summer, Loyola in New Orleans.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I attended various other seminars and so forth. Actually, I was, for the first several years, I attended some sort of school most of the time. And, as you pointed out before, teaching science in Oak Ridge might be somewhat challenging. And I felt that these things helped me and broadened my background.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And so, by attending all these schools, I felt that I had a fairly comfortable grasp of the science of chemistry at that level.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Now, when you... When you got married, now, did your...? Your wife moved to Oak Ridge with you. What...? Did she teach? I mean, she was...
MR. BILBREY: Yes, she taught at Linden for three years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: She taught the first grade. But when the family started, she quit that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. BILBREY: And did not go back to teaching.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: We had two kids -- children -- a boy and a girl, and they attended Oak Ridge school system.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And I had a chance to witness a product in that way.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Actually, I wanted my grandkids to go there, but it didn't turn out to be so.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. Did they...? Did any of them ever have you as a teacher?
MR. BILBREY: No, and I think that's probably best for both of us. (laughter) My kids, when they ask me questions, they wanted to know the answer and that was it. They didn't want to ...
MR. MCDANIEL: They didn't want the explanation.
MR. BILBREY: No, they didn't want the lecture. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.
MR. BILBREY: And so I'm afraid that's probably what I would have been doing if I had had... Well, they turned out well, as far as I'm concerned. My son went into metallurgy. He's at Bowling Green, Kentucky, and my daughter is at the Lab.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, ok.
MR. BILBREY: She's in accounting.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: After some time of teaching, a fellow by the name of Powell Puckett and I teamed up. Team teaching was the going thing back then, may still be, I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: When was this? In the '70s? 
MR. BILBREY: Would have been the ‘70s.
MR. MCDANIEL: That was about when the team teaching started.
MR. BILBREY: It was really a fad. And we started collaborating and teaching. That was a great help. We could discuss what we were teaching with each other.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Also, the students could get a different slant depending on our various points of view. He was a very energetic teacher. He had been a coach and he played at Murray State, I guess it was. And he'd been in the Navy so he was a rather outgoing, energetic fellow. I was somewhat more reserved, so if you balance the two of us out, it might have been somewhere in the middle, there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: To point out his energy: One time in the lounge... And, by the way, the lounge -- there was a men's lounge and a ladies' lounge. They were next door.
MR. MCDANIEL: At the high school.
MR. BILBREY: At the high school, were segregated. Well, that may have been a good thing. There was more freewheeling talk with the segregation. Lot of good humor went on in that men's room. I expect on the ladies' side may have, too. Some of those teachers were pretty good storytellers. I remember a fellow by the name of Ira Green. Very congenial fellow, he was a basketball coach and a psychology teacher and he could liven up the men's lounge. (laughter) Well, one day, my colleague, Powell, he carried his lunch to school in an old-fashioned type of lunch pail. One day, someone in the lounge dumped his lunch out or hid it and when he came to lunch, he looked in his box and there was nothing there, and he's not one to be outdone easily. I remember he took some spare objects in the lounge, Coke bottles and various other stuff, objects. He lifted that above the table, the center of the table, and those objects went... He dropped it right on the table, dumped the things in the lunch box. They went flying all 
over the room, 'bout a, I suspect, a 15 by 15 room or so.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Well, fortunately no one was injured in that encounter. Well, eventually, they did integrate the lounges.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: I don't know what they did with the ladies' but they brought -- the ladies' lounge, where they'd been -- they brought the ladies over to the men's lounge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: That did influence the caliber of the jokes. I don't know whether it went up or down.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, I understand.
MR. BILBREY: But depending on one's point of view. Somewhere along the line, we decided to try advanced placement course in chemistry, Powell and I. And this is a formidable undertaking. AP courses were rather common at the Oak Ridge High School at that time, but not so common throughout Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. BILBREY: But science courses, chemistry in particular, requires quite a bit of equipment that would be prohibitive to many systems. Great variety of chemicals and the teacher needs more time for preparation, also. You've got a two-hour lab.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: So Powell and I planned for this course and in '76, we put it into play.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: We had about 15 students in that class.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And, of course, we endeavored to make it equivalent to the college course in chemistry...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: ...which is a difficult task in a high school. The teacher must have quite a bit of basic knowledge in chemistry. And this... These AP courses, of course, are well established now and I just read in the paper recently where they are expanding and I don't know what the enrollment at the high school, Oak Ridge, is now, but I'm pretty certain it would be...
MR. MCDANIEL: It's about 1,400... I mean, total enrollment?
MR. BILBREY: Well, I'm talking about the enrollment in our AP courses.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I don't know.
MR. BILBREY: A fellow by the name of Eddie Anderson teaches it now. Well, I think we were rather successful in that course. You can make scores from a five down to a one. If you make, say, a three on up, you can probably skip the college course.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. BILBREY: And many of our students got fives, being the type of students they were.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And the amount of support. Powell retired, I guess, because of some back injury he had had in college, so after a couple of years of that team teaching that course, he retired and I carried on with it for the rest of my career as a teacher. And this certainly was a challenging course. It forces the teacher to learn the chemistry theory at the college level.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: After Sputnik and through that period of time, courses became more theoretical, more meaty, and less descriptive.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: For example, I have looked at the old chemistry book I had in high school and there's not a lot of theory. It was primarily 'this is used for this' and so forth.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: But, the courses that came out of these institutes and so forth, were far more meaty ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: ...and far better basis for future course work, I think. So I continued teaching chemistry, I think, three courses in, we called it college prep course, the regular course in chemistry.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: There is another course called general chemistry but it would be a somewhat weaker, more descriptive type of course that might be adequate for people not planning on a major in science.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. BILBREY:  But if they intended to take college chemistry, the college prep course was the one.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, that was the one they needed.
MR. BILBREY: It's a pretty rigorous course. I mean, if the student is going to succeed in the class in college -- and when I started about 50% flunked the course.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, yeah.
MR. BILBREY: And we tried to make it rigorous enough so that if they chose that field they could survive in it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: But it requires some compromise. Everyone in the class doesn't intend to take college chemistry, which is a disappointment. I think everyone should have it. (laughter) Any other questions about my... teaching.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what year did you retire?
MR. BILBREY: I retired in 1994.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok. Excuse me. (coughs) After teaching there 37...?
MR. BILBREY: 37 years, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. BILBREY: Well, most teachers don't go that long, but some do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: But I think the things that are occurring in teaching now probably is discouraging some teachers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Let's get back a little bit... I want to ask you some questions about working within the school system. I mean, you've talked about working in the school and in the town. What was it like...? Did you...? I guess, working with the administration. I mean, was there any issues or was there an excessive amount of support for teachers? How did you see that? The administrators of the schools and also of the overall school system.
MR. BILBREY: Well, by and large, they're very supportive. There would be a certain amount of workshops and workshops within departments.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Well, of course, people have their own personalities and some want this and some others want something else.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: But, by and large, very supportive. In the high school, the principals... As I said, Mr. Dunnigan was the principal that I had when I went there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And certainly he was, I think, highly respected.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And I would have to say that I might not have stayed in the profession if he had given me, you know, a hard time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY:  But he did support me. However, they will let you know if things aren't going right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. BILBREY: And if parents complain...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: ... it probably will be funneled on down if very much of it happens. But I think Oak Ridge has a very good support system in that respect.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Both the town and the school officials.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. How did you see...? How do you see...? And, I'm sure the way the town, you saw it in the school system. The students were a reflection of how the town changed over the years, you know, you were there for 37 years, surely things changed in the town of Oak Ridge and in the student population.
MR. BILBREY: I do think that there was more influx of students that didn't have parents with science background.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I think the average student might have been not quite as well prepared. No drastic change, however. And, of course, the change would have been gradual ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: ... and hardly noticeable as far as I was concerned. At the present time, there's so many evaluations coming down, that teachers now teaching tell me that much time is taken up in this sort of endeavor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Perhaps not to the best advantage of teachers and students.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. Did you, when you were teaching, did you have a lot of, like they do now, I mean, you know, they have core curriculum that comes from the state, this is what you're going to teach, this is what you're going to do, these are, you know, these are how many students are going to pass and how many students are going to fail, you know. Did you have any of that?
MR. BILBREY: Well, never how many students you're going to pass and how many you're going to fail. However, if you failed too many, there will be some repercussions.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Parents don't like students failing. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: The majority of the time... Well, there was a curriculum, I believe, handed down from the state, but that would have been so general that one could have varied it to meet his background and so forth. I think teachers do that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: They will concentrate more on areas that they like the most and least where they may not be that well prepared or don't like the subject. I didn't observe great changes, but I left the high school the year before the sophomore class was, or the freshman class was transferred in from the junior high.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. BILBREY: Yeah, it's just... I left the year before that happened.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.
MR. BILBREY: So I'm sure that changed the high school a great deal.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure it did.
MR. BILBREY: I don't think that the faculty, as a whole, probably get together like we did back in the beginning.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: I think departments work more in their department than with each other, and I'm not sure there is a lounge for all of the teachers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, I understand.
MR. BILBREY: And I think that's... I would miss that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. BILBREY: Because that give and take between all teachers. I mean, if you need to know if this word's a verb, there might be someone that could help you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Might be somebody that could help you. Now, where did...? Let's talk a little bit about your involvement in the community. Where did you and your family live?
MR. BILBREY: Well, we lived 501 West Outer Drive, Suzanne and I, until a few years passed, and then we built a house out on the Washburn Circle.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: And, about the time my son was born, we moved to that location.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And we stayed there about 50 years. It was a short hop down to the high school...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure...
MR. BILBREY: ...about five minutes, so that was a great advantage.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure.
MR. BILBREY: Well, we went to church at First Methodist Church...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: ... and, well, generally participated in things that presented themselves.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Was there anything particular? Was there any particular group or organization that you got involved in or your wife got involved in?
MR. BILBREY: Well, I did attend science things...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Primarily science things, I would get involved in.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. BILBREY: More than anything else. Since I have retired, I was president of Retired Teachers for a couple of years and vice president before that. And we travelled quite a bit. Things like that.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you stayed in Oak Ridge for 37 years, I guess you were kind of happy there. Well, you worked there for 37 years.
MR. BILBREY: That's correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.
MR. BILBREY: We left two or three years ago, came to this place.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. BILBREY: We have since sold that place.
MR. MCDANIEL: Which is near your daughter
MR. BILBREY: That's correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: Otherwise, you'd still be in left Oak Ridge, wouldn't you?
MR. BILBREY: Yes, and I might have still been there, but Suzanne especially wanted to be near the daughter.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. BILBREY: And as we get older, I think, it is a good move on our part...
MR. MCDANIEL: Makes sense, doesn't it?
MR. BILBREY: ...because I can see where it might be of some help and we can interchange with her, my daughter, now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is there anything else you want to talk about?
MR. BILBREY: Well, there is one other program I want to discuss, briefly, if that's all right.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, absolutely.
MR. BILBREY: In 1961, it was an eventful year for me. As I pointed out before, I got married. And the Lab wanted to expand the Saturday tours.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. BILBREY: And they hired several science teachers to conduct these tours and I was one of those.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: And that I did for nearly... About 30 years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. BILBREY: I guess longer than any of my colleagues did.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, tell me... This was '61. They were doing tours to the public? I mean, what was that about?
MR. BILBREY: Oh, this was certainly to the public or anyone else. Well, you did have to go through some sort of preliminary clearance. You would have to submit your name, but not much clearance. But anyone could go through the plants.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. BILBREY: That certainly is not true now.
MR. MCDANIEL: That is not true.
MR. BILBREY: But the war, of course, had ended and the Lab... AEC wanted to educate the public on nuclear science.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And, I guess, they thought science teachers might be about the best they could get for that job.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. BILBREY: Also cheaper than regular employees. (laughter)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true. Right.
MR. BILBREY: Well, great numbers of people, especially students, would visit on Saturdays and we would take them to various places at the Lab. Well, places that were set aside.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: But certainly the Graphite Reactor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I suspect that's true today if you take a tour there, the Graphite Reactor would be one of the ...
MR. MCDANIEL: That's the place you have to go if you go to the Lab.
MR. BILBREY: They're going to take you there. Yes. Well, when a typical high school group would come in, well, we'd give them a badge and they would sit there in front of the face of that reactor and we would give them about a 30 minute spiel there trying to bring in things that, you know, we thought typical public and students should know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: By the way, that reactor was operating at that time, for a couple of years, I believe.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, was it?
MR. BILBREY: And if the light at the top said, "Pile On," you could hear it making a little noise. It was, I think, kind of exciting to sit there and, well, of course, some students didn't take it that seriously.
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course.
MR. BILBREY: But, all in all, I think we were able to inform them in certain areas. We would also take them to the isotopes packaging and shipping department.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: That was a very big part -- well, perhaps not a real big part, but -- production of isotopes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Absolutely.
MR. BILBREY: That was just coming into being.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: So there was a facility down there with the hot cells and that was rather impressive to be able to show the hot cells.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And we would take a typical group to the hot cells and show them how the mechanical arms worked in the production of those isotopes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And we took them to many others places. As one place might be off limits, we'd go to another. As a matter of fact, after the Oak Ridge Research Reactor came on line,
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: ... we started taking groups over there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. BILBREY: And, believe it or not, I have seen as many as 50 students gathered around that pool.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. BILBREY: That, you look down through the water and saw the Cerenkov glow, which was very mysterious at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Well, it still is, I suppose...
MR. MCDANIEL: Still is.
MR. BILBREY: ... to most of us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: But certainly, DOE would not allow a group of high school students to gather around that reactor at this time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course not.
MR. BILBREY: But we did that for many years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Many years.
MR. BILBREY: No one fell in or dropped anything.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Maybe we scared them a little bit before we went up there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Actually we took groups, later, out to the HFR.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. BILBREY: And, I think, now you would need to have some real good reason for going out there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. BILBREY: Probably investigate your background ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yep, that is true.
MR. BILBREY: ... rather thoroughly before they would allow that. And I remember, we would take them to a chard of isotopes, I think it's in the reactor, Graphite Reactor building now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: It was down in the solid state division. But they had samples of all of the elements -- well, not the high radioactive ones, of course.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: But most of the elements were in little vials.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And we'd give them the spiel about the atomic chart, different elements, especially radioactive elements, rare elements, so forth.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you apparently liked doing that. You did it for 30 years.
MR. BILBREY: I did. It was a great experience. I'd get some of the same people year after year.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: And some of the same teachers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: This was fairly heavy traffic in the spring when teachers are trying to fill out the year and schools get a little ... students get a little restless, so they'd take them on tour. So it was good for me and, I hope, good for the people I talked to.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: There were a lot of other people that visited there. I remember, very early when I started doing that work, I looked back in the group that I had, and there was a fellow by the name of Dr. Overman in that group and he was a scientist out at the Lab. Well a lot of scientists came through, actually.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: And I'm sure we were not giving them much information that they didn't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: Well, he listened to me lecture and I wondered what he'd say about it. He complimented me, perhaps just trying to be nice. He had written books on the topic.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.
MR. BILBREY: And I'm sure I was not informing him very much.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: Well, we had groups like those civil service people that would come to Oak Ridge. That program has been cut out now.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: But they would bring groups out to the Lab. It consisted of managers and governmental positions throughout the nation. Just talking to those people is certainly broadening and helpful to me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: The program was discontinued, or at least the way it was being carried on...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: ... somewhere around 1990.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. BILBREY: I suppose now, to go through, you would be in a specialized group. Maybe a college physics, I don't know what type of people, but certainly not the general public.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. BILBREY: I don't know that the nation is well informed now on atomic science as they might be, but at least we've tried to do our part. (laughter) I worked, not quite full time, but the year of the fair, the World's Fair in Knoxville. We had several places set up out there...
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: ...and we would take -- anyone could just walk in and go to those places.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. BILBREY: Graphite Reactor was one of them and the Aquatic Center.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. BILBREY: There was an outpost over there on a hill, an overlook, where we would take them. It's been torn down now, I don't know what replaced it, I believe a parking lot, I’m not sure.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Well, anything else you want to tell me about? Anything else you want to talk about?
MR. BILBREY: Well, I think I have pretty well covered my career in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Well, I think it's been interesting and we appreciate you taking time to tell us about your life and your life in Oak Ridge and what it was like to teach at the Oak Ridge schools for 37 years.
MR. BILBREY: Well, thank you very much, Mr. McDaniel. I have enjoyed it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Very good. Very good.

[End of Interview]