Barton, Charles

              
ORAL HISTORY OF CHARLES BARTON
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
October 29, 2013
 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	This interview is for the Center of Oak Ridge Oral History. The date is October 29, 2013. I am Don Hunnicutt in the home of Mr. Charles Barton, 3029 Bridge Garden Road, Knoxville, Tennessee, to take his oral history about living in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Mr. Barton, please state your full name, place of birth, and date. 
MR. BARTON: Charles Julian Barton, Jr. I was born on July 20, 1942, in Covington, Virginia. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Would you tell us your father’s name and his place of birth and date – if you recall?
MR. BARTON: My father’s name was Charles Julian Barton, Sr. He was born in Jellico, Tennessee, on February 3, 1912. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And your mother’s maiden name and place of birth and date?
MR. BARTON: My mother’s maiden name was Ruth May Grant, and she was born in Parkersburg, West Virginia, in September. I’m not sure of the date – 1914. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	On your mother’s side, do you recall your grandfather’s name and your grandmother on that side? 
MR. BARTON: My mother’s father was David Grant, and I don’t recall what my grandmother’s – it was Nina Grant. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about on your father’s side? 
MR. BARTON: Charles Lee Barton and Viola Hodston. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me a little bit about your father’s school history. 
MR. BARTON: My father went to Jellico Schools. He left high school after his junior year, spent a year at Cumberland College, and then transferred to the University of Tennessee, where he received his bachelor’s and master’s degrees in chemistry. He then went to the University of Virginia, and received his doctorate in chemistry in 1939. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was your mother – what about her school history? 
MR. BARTON: She went to Parkersburg Schools, and then attended Bluefield College and Marshall College – now Marshall University. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you have brothers and sisters?
MR. BARTON: I had two full brothers – David Grant Barton, who lives in Dallas and who is still alive; and Michael Lee Barton, who is deceased. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Your father – after he got out of college, where was his first job? Do you recall?
MR. BARTON: His first job was working for Norris Dam – for the TVA at Norris Dam. He was analyzing the cement that went into Norris Dam. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall any conversations that he talked about when he worked at Norris Dam?
MR. BARTON: I don’t recall anything except him describing what he did, and the fact that with his salary he bought his first car.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was that?
MR. BARTON: A Marmon Straight 8. It was sort of a sporty car for the 1930’s. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And where did they live?
MR. BARTON: I assume he lived in Knoxville. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your mother work? Or was she a homemaker? 
MR. BARTON: My mother was a homemaker, although she engaged in a lot of volunteer activities.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall what they were? 
MR. BARTON: She was very active in church activities, including the Women’s Missionary Union [WMU] of Glenwood Baptist Church. She was also a church librarian. She was president of the WMU for the Clinton Baptist Association. While she was president of the Clinton Baptist WMU, she started the Community Center in Briceville. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your father stay until the Norris Dam was completed?
MR. BARTON: I believe that he probably went to the University of Virginia before the completion of the dam. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When did the family come to Oak Ridge? 
MR. BARTON: We moved to Oak Ridge in 1948. My father got a job with Y-12 with a chemistry group that was attached to Y-12. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall how the family got to Oak Ridge?
MR. BARTON: Well, we were living in Bartow, Florida, at the time, where my father worked for International Minerals. He drove to Oak Ridge to take his job, and mother and my brothers came by train. We spent the first six weeks in East Tennessee living with my uncle in Clinton, where he was minister of the Pilgrim Holiness Church.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was his name?
MR. BARTON: Harold Barton. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember any times about living in Clinton?
MR. BARTON: Yeah. I remember attending Clinton Elementary School, Moraine Elementary School in Clinton. I remember going to an assembly where there was a magician performing. That’s about all I remember. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What grade would that have been?
MR. BARTON: That would have been the first grade. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did the family move to Oak Ridge when housing was available?
MR. BARTON: Yes, that was six weeks after my father was employed by Y-12. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where was the first family’s home in Oak Ridge?  
MR. BARTON: It was the only family’s home, and it was at 237 Outer Drive. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What type of house was that?
MR. BARTON: It was a D house. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall what a D house looked like?
MR. BARTON: Yes, I have a mental picture of the house as we are talking. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Would you describe what you remember?
MR. BARTON: Well, it was initially a single-story house, fairly large by what was in 1948 Oak Ridge standards with three bedrooms, a large living room, a fairly large dining room, a coal furnace, and what was then a large kitchen. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have your own bedroom?
MR. BARTON: I shared a bedroom with David. There was a bedroom that was set aside for my grandmothers, who were widows by that time; and who came to visit us on a rotating basis – usually for about three months at a time. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When your family rode the train from Florida, where did the train come into? Knoxville? 
MR. BARTON: Out of Knoxville. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And then from Knoxville, your father picked the family up and brought you to Clinton? 
MR. BARTON: I don’t remember, but I assume that that was what happened. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So what was the first grade school that you attended in Oak Ridge? 
MR. BARTON: Cedar Hill. I remember the first day at Cedar Hill. I had adjusted to going to the school in Clinton, and was disappointed that they had taken me out of that school. My mother took me to the Cedar Hill School and enrolled me there. I was so upset that I vomited. I was mischievous. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember your teacher’s name? 
MR. BARTON: Mrs. Provo. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How many grades did you go through Cedar Hill?
MR. BARTON: I went through fifth grade. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was the difference in the two schools that you can remember? 
MR. BARTON: I have no memory of the Clinton school except the magician, and I don't recall seeing a magician at Cedar Hill. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was there a lot of children at Cedar Hill attending when you went in the classroom? 
MR. BARTON: Yeah. There were two classrooms per grade. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember some of your other teachers’ names? 
MR. BARTON: Mrs. Silvey, Mrs. Allen, Mrs. Huffman, and those are all I can remember. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was the typically dress for a boy going to school in those days? 
MR. BARTON: I don’t remember what. I wore long plaid pants, leather shoes, and button-down shirt. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember some of the classes you took?
MR. BARTON: Standard classes – music, art, gym. I think that’s about all that I took. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you like school at that time?
MR. BARTON: Not particularly. I suffered from a condition, which I much later learned was called school-phobia. I was frightened of attending school. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your mother – was she a house maker at that time? Or did she have an outside job that she worked? 
MR. BARTON: She was a homemaker throughout my parents’ marriage. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your father – when he was working at Y-12 – ever say anything about what his job might be? 
MR. BARTON: Well, of course initially he said that it was a government secret. Later I learned that he was doing research that was important for the development of reactor technology. He was involved in developing an industrial process to separate two metals – zirconium and hafnium – that were difficult to separate because of their chemistry. This led to the use of zirconium in reactors, which is still to this day an important material for building reactors. All modern reactors require zirconium. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How many years do you recall your father worked for Y-12?
MR. BARTON: He worked for Y-12 until July of 1950, when he was reassigned to ORNL. His group was transferred to ORNL supervision, although they continued to work at Y-12 until late in the 1950’s. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what do you recall that he did when he was at ORNL?
MR. BARTON: Well, the most important thing he did was what is called Molten Salt Research. My father participated in the Molten Salt Reactor Project from 1950 to 1969, when the reactor was shut down – the last experimental reactor was shut down. He made important contributions to the development of Molten Salt Reactor Shields. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you or any of your family ask him what he was doing at work?
MR. BARTON: Initially, yes I did. And he said “I am – what I’m doing is a government secret.” Later on, he did identify to us what he was working on – at least some of the time. For example, he had identified that he was working on the Aircraft Nuclear Propulsion Project, which was the Molten Salt Reactor research.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was that the aircraft that they proposed to build with a reactor on board?
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How did you feel when he said this was top secret – what he did was top secret and he couldn’t say anything? Did that intrigue you?
MR. BARTON: No, I sort of accepted that as the norm for Oak Ridge. Many of my –the kids I went to school with had parents that did research that was secret. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Back at home, do you recall some of the places your mother went for grocery shopping? 
MR. BARTON: A&P. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where was that located? 
MR. BARTON: I don’t remember – maybe Jackson Square. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did she have a car to travel to the grocery story? 
MR. BARTON: When we moved to Oak Ridge, my mother didn’t drive. But that meant that my father had to drive her whenever she needed to shop. If we needed – my mother needed to get to school or get to some church activity in the daytime, she had to take a taxi. There were carpools at Y-12 and later at ORNL. So my father could leave the car at home for Mother to drive if she learned how to drive, so they decided that Mother would go to driver education, which she did. And there were other women who worked – whose husbands worked in Oak Ridge, who were also getting driver’s education at that time. Mother would talk about women that she was learning to drive with. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall where she had to go for the driver’s education? 
MR. BARTON: No, I don’t. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you ever ride the bus system in Oak Ridge? 
MR. BARTON: Yeah. I think we did, but not frequently. Of course, I also rode the bus sometimes to school. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How far was the home from Cedar Hill School?
MR. BARTON: It was about a mile. After I got – after a year or two, Mother insisted that on the nice days, I should walk to school. If you are familiar with Outer Drive, you will know that walking on Outer Drive is an athletic endeavor. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	It’s up and down the hills. 
MR. BARTON: Yes, it is. These are rather steep hills. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you were small, hills were always steep. Today you go back and look at them, and they weren’t as steep as what you thought, but they were still pretty steep. 
MR. BARTON: Yeah. But on the other hand, they were also the only place we had to play. So we would play on hillsides. One of the things I did during the summer was to hike to Key Springs and sometimes to Bacon Springs. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me where they were located. 
MR. BARTON: Well, we would hike along Outer Drive to G Road. I guess the name has changed. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	No, it’s still the same. 
MR. BARTON: It’s still G Road? Okay. Then we would walk down G Road to – we came to Key Springs. Very frequently we would walk onto Poplar Creek, and sometimes along the road – along Poplar Creek to Bacon Springs. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	If I’m not mistaken, the road was gravel in those days. 
MR. BARTON: Yes, it was. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	It’s paved now. 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	It’s used quite frequently from people down off of Highway 61 coming into Oak Ridge. 
MR. BARTON: Right. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What else did you do in the summertime when you were going to Cedar Hill?
MR. BARTON: Well, we played in the greenbelt that was on the – that started in our backyard and goes all the way to New York Avenue. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have a bicycle?
MR. BARTON: Not initially. The hills were steep enough that riding a bicycle was – even when I was bigger – difficult. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall when your mother used to wash the family’s clothes – what she did? How did she do that? 
MR. BARTON: Well, she had a washing machine, and then she hung them on the clothesline. I can remember that my grandmother was out hanging clothes on the clothes line. As a matter of fact, my Grandmother Barton had a fall, which she broke her hip while hanging clothes on the clothes line. As I got older, then Mother had me and then my brothers as well hang clothes and take them off the line. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you enjoy doing that? 
MR. BARTON: It didn’t bother me. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did any of the family have allowances in those days? 
MR. BARTON: Yeah. We had allowances. I think initially it was around a quarter a week, maybe then up to 50 cents or $1.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you participate in any of the playground activities at Cedar Hill during the summer?
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you remember about that? 
MR. BARTON: Not much. I remember doing some handicraft and playing on the swings and other playground amenities. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Cedar Hill was located on Kentucky Avenue. They have a park there today. Have you seen the parks?
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	It’s quite an elaborate park for a kid. Do you visit it quite a bit? 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	If I remember right, wasn’t the ball field sort of in the corner of…
MR. BARTON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	…where Outer Drive and Michigan Avenue there? 
MR. BARTON: Right. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I guess Cedar Hill is on Michigan Avenue, not on Kentucky. Did you ever have a paper route? 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Who did you deliver papers for? 
MR. BARTON: The Oak Ridger. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How much did you make a week?
MR. BARTON: Not very much, but it was a small route. I think there were about 30 homes on my route. Actually my brother David had the Oak Ridger route initially, and then he took over the [Knoxville] News Sentinel – not News Sentinel – Knoxville Journal route. I took over his Oak Ridger route. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was that a five- or seven-day newspaper, the Oak Ridger?
MR. BARTON: It was a five-day newspaper. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have to collect weekly money? 
MR. BARTON: It was either weekly or monthly. I’m not sure which. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What other things did you do to earn money? 
MR. BARTON: That was about – well, I cut grass for my parents. My parents had a good-size yard. It was three-fourths of an acre. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember any other stores that your mother frequently visited? 
MR. BARTON: Well, she visited – let me see what – Loveman’s. I’m not sure. The name Loveman’s ….
MR. HUNNICUTT:	That’s a store that was in Jackson Square, yeah. 
MR. BARTON: I just don’t remember the stores she shopped in. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about on Saturday? Did you ever attend the indoor theaters? 
MR. BARTON: Center Theater. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What kind of …
MR. BARTON: Two westerns and a serial for a dime or something like that. It wasn’t very expensive, but all the kids in town would show up. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you walk to the theater? 
MR. BARTON: No, I think my parents drove us. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was your next school that you entered?
MR. BARTON: Jefferson. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where was it located?
MR. BARTON: It was located on the Hillside, but above Jackson Square. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	On Kentucky Avenue…
MR. BARTON: Yeah. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	That’s where the high school used to be? 
MR. BARTON: I assume that that’s – by the time I attended it, the high school moved to the new high school building. They had – they were getting more Baby Boom kids in the elementary school, so they moved the sixth grade to Jefferson in Robertsville. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you recall different between the Cedar Hill Elementary School and the Jefferson Junior High School?
MR. BARTON: Well, we took shop for one thing. We had a football team, a basketball team, had track. The gym classes were separated by gender. Classes were more demanding. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember during gym time how they kept the girls and the boys on each side of the gym – what they had up?
MR. BARTON: I don’t remember. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	They had a curtain that would go across …
MR. BARTON: Yeah. You’re right. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember who the gym teacher was?  
MR. BARTON: I remember Nick Orlando. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You took shop. What type of shop did you take – woodworking or metal or …?
MR. BARTON: I think woodworking and metal. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You remember the teacher’s name – the shop teacher?
MR. BARTON: No, I’ve forgotten. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you take any music classes while you were in junior high? 
MR. BARTON: Oh, yeah. I was a member of the band, and Miss Lyman was the band teacher. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you remember about Miss Lyman?
MR. BARTON: She was a terrorist. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	That seems to be the comment of everybody. But she was good at what she did, wasn’t she? 
MR. BARTON: Well, that was the opinion of the parents. My brother David later on became a band teacher himself, and says that – at least he’s raised some questions about how effective a band teacher Mrs. Lyman really was. I’m going to defer endorsing her techniques. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you think you learned anything from Miss Lyman? 
MR. BARTON: Actually, no. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What instrument did you play?
MR. BARTON: I played the French horn. I think I was too frightened to be teachable. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Had you had music prior to junior high?
MR. BARTON: Yeah. I studied piano lessons as a young boy. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have a piano in the home? 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember who your piano teacher was?
MR. BARTON: Yeah. We had a Mrs. Lee. David went on to become a serious musician. He eventually studied piano with Roger Legasse, I believe it was. And Roger Legasse eventually went to Washington, and I believe became an official of the EPA.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did anyone else in the family play any musical instruments? 
MR. BARTON: Mike, I don’t think was much interested in music. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where did you fall in the age group of the family?
MR. BARTON: I was the oldest boy. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you seem to have rule over the others?
MR. BARTON: Not really. David was just 18 months younger than me. I’ve since joked that I kept my brothers in line, but that’s not really true. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You mentioned Mrs. Lee. She taught music for many, many years in Oak Ridge. 
MR. BARTON: Mm-hm. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	A lot of adults took music from her later on. 
MR. BARTON: Right, very good music teacher. David was also the [inaudible] when he was – high school was the [inaudible] Methodist Church. I’m trying to think. The stories about David is that they kept demanding and asking him to provide the name of the offertory piece he was going to play on Sunday. He usually didn’t know what that would be until shortly before the service. Finally, he went to Minetta Stone, I believe, and got her to translate into German the words “This church is going to the dogs.” So on the bulletin it said, “Offertory: This church is going to the dogs” by Johan Sebastian Bach. Anyway – I guess we were at times mischievous. Me – never, of course, when I say we. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	 During your time at Jefferson, what were some of the teachers you had? Do you remember their names?  
MR. BARTON: I have put them out of my mind, aside from Miss Lyman. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Miss Lyman and Nick Orlando? 
MR. BARTON: Nick Orlando, Mrs. [inaudible] – I remember her. I don’t remember the other teachers. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you find it hard to learn how to march during the band during the football games and things of that nature? 
MR. BARTON: Probably. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were there any clubs in junior high? Were you affiliated with any clubs in junior high?
MR. BARTON: No. I was not a cluber. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	During the time – summertime or any other time – did you ever collect Coke bottles and turn them for deposit? 
MR. BARTON: No, but I did collect fireflies. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What did you do with them, and how much did you get for them?
MR. BARTON: I think we were paid $1 for them [inaudible]. I’m not sure who we turned them into, but there was somebody doing research on fireflies. They were recruiting firefly collectors in Oak Ridge. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember during school times, they used to sell savings bond stamps? I can't remember the exact word for it, but you could buy stamps and then turn them in for savings bonds. 
MR. BARTON: No, I never did that. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember milk delivery to the house? 
MR. BARTON: Yes, I do. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me what you remember about that? 
MR. BARTON: That’s about all. I remember the milk and maybe eggs as well were delivered to the house after we moved to Oak Ridge. I don’t think that went on for very long. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember the wooden boardwalks when you came to Oak Ridge?
MR. BARTON: That was passed. We had ordinary sidewalks. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about radio programs? Did you like to listen to the radio?
MR. BARTON: I liked WUOT. I was a snob.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	As far as listening to…
MR. BARTON: I did listen – I’ll take that back. I did listen to the “Midday Merry-go-round.” 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What kind of program was that? 
MR. BARTON: That was a country music program on Knoxville WBIR, I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about your mom? Did she listen to the radio? Do you remember? 
MR. BARTON: Not a lot as far as I recall. My mother was not – she didn’t grow up with radio. I don’t think she was much – she cared much for popular music. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What did the family do for entertainment as a family? 
MR. BARTON: Go to church. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where did you attend? 
MR. BARTON: Glenwood Baptist Church. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you ever visit the swimming pool in the summertime – the Oak Ridge swimming pool? 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me about the swimming pool. 
MR. BARTON: As a matter of fact, that was one of my regular summer activities. I would walk to the swimming pool. Also, I would walk to the Grove Theater or the Ridge Theater. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	In your neighborhood when you were growing up before and even during high school, was there a lot of kids in the neighborhoods? 
MR. BARTON: Yeah. There were a lot of kids. We would get together and play in the greenbelt after school or in the summer. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What kind of games did you play? Do you remember?
MR. BARTON: I think we played Cowboys and Indians. We played mock war games. We played basketball and football. I can't think of any others right now. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you even play Kick the Can? Do you remember that game?
MR. BARTON: I don’t recall every playing Kick the Can. I knew about Kick the Can. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	That was a pretty simple game to play. You just put the can, and somebody was it, and they had to kick it. Did you ever visit any of the bowling alleys?
MR. BARTON: No. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How about the skating rink?
MR. BARTON: No. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have any special friends when you were growing up – pals that you chummed around with?
MR. BARTON: There were some people that I liked and spent time with – in particular David Weinberg comes to mind. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what did you guys like to do?
MR. BARTON: Well, we were more of the intellectuals – read science fiction, talk about politics. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember going shopping with your mother and standing in lines for long periods of time? 
MR. BARTON: No. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you required to go with her shopping? 
MR. BARTON: I did go with her shopping sometimes. I just don’t remember long lines. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about during the time that the city opened the gates in March of 1949? Do you remember that event? 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me what you remember about that? 
MR. BARTON: I think it was – it struck me as strange that one of the starlets who showed up for the gate opening was called “the Body.” 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Marie “the Body” McDonald?
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Why did that strike you as …?
MR. BARTON: That was a strange name for somebody. Of course, this was a publicist name, I’m sure. Her publicist was probably paid for by William Randolph Hearst. They brought in a group of Hollywood lesser lights. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Other movie stars?
MR. BARTON: Yeah. Not major movie stars as I recall. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you attend the parade that was in town?
MR. BARTON: I think so. I think we did. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Don’t remember where you were standing? 
MR. BARTON: No. What I remember more was the gates and stopping to establish identity and having to arrange passes for family members if they came to visit. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you remember as going in and out of the gates with your family?
MR. BARTON: Well, the gates – Elza Gate. I remember that. There was a sort of roof. I guess – I don’t recall, but my guess is that my father showed his badge or something like that. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yes, that’s kind of the protocol. Do you recall when your grandmothers came to visit having to go to a certain place and get them?
MR. BARTON: I don’t recall if my grandmothers came for a visit before the gates were opened. We were just in Oak Ridge from October ’48, and you said March ’49. We weren’t in Oak Ridge all that long. My Grandmother Barton was staying with my uncle in Clinton. She would have gotten a pass like my uncle. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember in 1945 when it was announced that the war was over? Do you remember that? Or do you remember dropping the bomb on Japan?
MR. BARTON: No. One of the – my memories from that era – there was I believe a naval air station that was located close to where the apartment where my parents lived. They were flying experimental jets out of that naval air station. I asked my mother – was frightened by the noise that the jets were making, and I asked my mother. She told me, and that sort of registered as one of my stronger memories of living in Cleveland. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you ever attend the museum in Oak Ridge? The atomic museum?
MR. BARTON: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	The American Museum of Atomic Energy. 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you recall how that was?
MR. BARTON: I recalled the radioactive dimes and the Vandergraph generator and putting my hand on the generator and having my hair stand on end.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you like the exhibits that was in the museum?
MR. BARTON: Well, I don’t remember much about those exhibits now. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember where the museum was located? 
MR. BARTON: I remembered the building, but I don’t – where it was located, I’m not sure. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember any other special events or places in Oak Ridge during your growing up time in Oak Ridge – things that might have happened?
MR. BARTON: My parents started going to the Oak Ridge Symphony when we were young. We went regularly. I remember that. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where did they used to hold that? 
MR. BARTON: Well, they held it – I guess – I’m not sure where they held it. Probably in the Jefferson auditorium before the Oak Ridge high school was built. My memories are more ongoing in Oak Ridge High School. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Who was the leader at that time of the symphony? 
MR. BARTON: I remember Waldo Cohn as the conductor. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I think you mentioned to me earlier before we started about you interviewing Waldo Cohn? 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me about that. 
MR. BARTON: I have to frame the story. My parents came to visit. I was living in Dallas in the mid-1990s. I was investigating so-called problem of lost and recovered memories. My parents were visiting me and my brother. I drove them back to the airport, and they started talking about a recall election that was going on in Oak Ridge at that time – City Council recall. I said “You know, there was another recall election, and that was the recall of Waldo Cohn in 1954.” They said “You’re right. We remember that.” And so I wanted to check on how accurate my memories were. The next visit I made in Oak Ridge, I went to the library and looked at the Oak Ridger stories about the recall election and Waldo’s role in it. Waldo had been chairman of the City Council – the sort of honorary mayor of Oak Ridge was not an official position. Oak Ridge was not an incorporated city at the time. But anyway, the Oak Ridge City Council had voted to support the integration of schools at a time when the South was segregated. Once this happened, then the controversy broke out in Oak Ridge because there were a lot of people who were southerners who didn’t want to see segregation ending. Anyway, so there was a recall petition and the recall election. Anyway, so I remembered that. I also remembered Waldo’s son, Donnie, who was one of my friends, talking about what his barber had said about Waldo when Donnie had gone in for a haircut. So wanted to see if what I remembered Donnie saying was in fact the case. And I [inaudible] the Oak Ridger. I called up Waldo and asked if I could interview him. He said yes, so I went out and interviewed him. He was an old man and not in very good health, as far as I could tell. But he was very gracious in answering all my questions. And he confirmed that Donnie had heard his barber say this. It in fact validated my memory, and I wrote this up – posted it on Jim Ramsey’s blog. Jim had been also a childhood friend. Then later I posted it on my own blog when I was a blogger. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was your family’s home close to the Ramseys home? 
MR. BARTON: Well, my father worked with Jim’s father. I can remember when Jim’s father committed suicide. My father was very upset about it because they had worked together. Jim’s father had made what my father regarded as an important contribution to my father’s work. So anyway …
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me what the typical Christmas was like at your house. 
MR. BARTON: Well, we would go out with my father to buy a Christmas tree. My parents would put the tree up, and then we would all participate in decorating the tree. Mother prepared Christmas dinner. As I got older, she would ask me to help her cut. I did a good deal of cooking as I became a teenager. We had of course presents. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your mother cook a lot during Christmastime?
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you remember she cooked? 
MR. BARTON: Well, we would have most frequently turkey, dressing, vegetables, and – for example, string beans and peas – gravy, mashed potatoes …
MR. HUNNICUTT:	All the good things that they say is bad for you now. 
MR. BARTON: Pumpkin pie, mincemeat pie. She would make sweet rolls for Christmas morning. We’d usually make more sweet rolls than we were going to eat and give some to the neighbors. Of course, after Christmas we would have turkey soup and turkey sandwiches and multiple meals with leftovers. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall when you found out who Santa Claus was?
MR. BARTON: I don’t recall ever having much illusions about Santa Claus – the whole thing was just a cover up so my brothers wouldn’t find out. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did the family have a garden?
MR. BARTON: Yes. We had – with the large house, they raised corn. They raised tomatoes. They raised cucumbers. They raised various other garden vegetables. Also they had a blackberry patch. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your mother make blackberry jellies and jams? 
MR. BARTON: She made pies. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did the family have a telephone in the early days? 
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you on a party line? 
MR. BARTON: I think so. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember about a party line – what it was about? 
MR. BARTON: Party line is that you have one ring if it’s one party and two rings if it's the second other party. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You could eavesdrop on the phone if…
MR. BARTON: Oh, yeah, you could, but that wasn’t polite. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You mentioned that the family lived in that house from the first time they moved in. How long did the family live there? 
MR. BARTON: Until about 2005.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When did your father retire? Do you recall?
MR. BARTON: My father retired in I believe in 1977.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you attended the high school, it was located where it is today. Is that correct?
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me about the high school. How did you remember the high school being different than junior high?
MR. BARTON: Well, it was a little more relaxed than junior high. That may have been due to the school local culture of the school. But I was still uptight. I had lots – I still have my school anxiety. But the school itself was calmer, it seemed to me. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you take your music from junior high to the high school? 
MR. BARTON: No. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Had enough of music?
MR. BARTON: Yeah. I had had enough of music. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about the piano playing? Did you continue that? 
MR. BARTON: No, I stopped playing the piano I think when I was in junior high school. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was some of the classes you took in the high school?
MR. BARTON: English, history, mathematics. I can't remember what the other classes – French. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was there any particular classes you liked better than others?
MR. BARTON: History. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember who your history teacher was?
MR. BARTON: Not right off hand. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You remember any of your high school teachers?
MR. BARTON: The only one I remember is Adam Lambing. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall what she taught? 
MR. BARTON: It’s a he. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	He, I’m sorry. 
MR. BARTON: I think I had him for health. He was an athlete. What was it he was in? Decathlon – he was a decathlon athlete. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was gym class easier, harder, or any different than it was at Jefferson?
MR. BARTON: Well, when I was at high school, I think by that time I was getting limitations on my gym my doctor was writing, indicating that I needed some limitations on my gym activity. So I’m not sure how to compare it. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you work during high school times? 
MR. BARTON: No. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have your driver’s license?
MR. BARTON: Except, I did the paper route. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you able to drive the family car during high school time? 
MR. BARTON: My father insisted that I had to wait until David was 16. He figured that our insurance would be the same for two as for one teenager, and therefore it was a bargain to wait until David was 16 before he had to start paying for insurance. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	After you graduated from high school, what was [inaudible] for your education?
MR. BARTON: I wanted to study psychology. I went to Carson Newman, and quickly decided that the psychology teachers didn’t have a lot to offer me, whereas the philosophy professor at Carson Newman did have a lot to offer. So I switched majors to philosophy. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How many years were you at Carson Newman?
MR. BARTON: I was a student at Carson Newman for three years and graduated at the end of the third year. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Then what did you do after that? 
MR. BARTON: After that I looked for a job, but I had trouble finding jobs. Eventually I got a job teaching math in Knoxville. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What school was that? 
MR. BARTON: Vine Junior High School. At that time, I was the only white member of the faculty at Vine Junior High School. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you recall about that first day of teaching? 
MR. BARTON: I think everybody was a little uncomfortable and trying to make it work. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How many years did you stay there? 
MR. BARTON: Just one year. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you enjoy teaching math?
MR. BARTON: No, I was not a successful teacher. Then I looked for another job, and eventually I took a job with the Tennessee Department of Human Services and was a food stamp caseworker in Campbell County for three years. Then I ran into Jim Ramsey one day, and Jim was studying law at University of Tennessee and had gotten a job as an assistant to – I’ve forgotten who or what his name was. But anyway, he was an administrative assistant to an engineer who had been assigned to develop the ORNL NSF environmental studies program. Jim says “Why don’t you come to work for us?” I said “I don’t have any background in environmental studies.” He said “Neither do any of the guys we’re hiring.” So I said “Sure, why not?” Environmental studies was the big thing, and people who were involved in it knew absolutely nothing. So we were starting out at the same spot. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where was that job? 
MR. BARTON: That was at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. I was – it was a temporary job. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How long did that last?
MR. BARTON: That lasted a little more than a year. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you living in Oak Ridge at that time?
MR. BARTON: Yes. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you living in your parents’ home?
MR. BARTON: No, I found an apartment close to Jackson Square. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	After that particular job, what happened then?
MR. BARTON: I went to school at the University of Memphis, working on a master’s in philosophy. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you come back to this area after you got out of school?
MR. BARTON: No. I moved to Dallas and stayed there until October 2009. What I didn’t mentioned in my account of my life at Oak Ridge is that around 1967 or 1968, I met a young lady at the First Baptist Church of Oak Ridge. We started dating. The young lady was Rebecca Roller. We dated for four years. Then I moved to Memphis and onto Dallas. We didn’t have any contact for nearly 40 years. In the meantime, my mother had died. My father married an Oak Ridge widow named Anna Kate Teague. Anna Kate was the mother of somebody I knew – Ben Teague. So Ben became my stepbrother. In 2009 – spring of 2009, Ben was murdered, and this made national news because there were several people who were actually murdered at the same time. Becky had been a classmate of Ben’s, and she heard that a Ben Teague had been murdered. She wanted to find out if it was the Ben Teague she knew. She looked up on the internet – looked up Ben’s name. I had written a blog post about Ben after his death. She found my post on Ben. After nearly 40 years, she found me again. So she wrote me an email. I was very happy to hear from her. I wrote her back, and – as they say – the rest is history. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Back in the early days of Oak Ridge, do you remember doctors making house calls?
MR. BARTON: No. Oh, excuse me. Yeah, I do – not to my family, but to my Grandmother Barton, who had – especially after her broken hip. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember some of the doctors that you visited during your youth in Oak Ridge? 
MR. BARTON: What was his name? Was there a Dr. Preston? I believe he was my doctor. Later I had Dr. Rossman as my doctor. He was also my grandmother’s doctor. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I want to mention a few places that was in Oak Ridge. Tell me what you remember about them. The Snow White Drive-In… 
MR. BARTON: I don’t remember ever eating there. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about the Skyway Drive-In movie theater?  
MR. BARTON: My brothers and I attended at least one movie in the Skyway Drive-In. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember the Rabbit Drive-In? [Da-Rabbit Drive-In]
MR. BARTON: No. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you think you like best about growing up in Oak Ridge?
MR. BARTON: I like the fact that our freedom to run around and do what we wanted after school and in the summertime. In retrospect, the excitement that there was about new ideas and new research that’s going on at the Laboratory. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What’s the most amazing thing you’ve ever seen in your lifetime, you think?
MR. BARTON: I can't tell you right offhand. The most amazing person is my wife. But I can't tell you what the most amazing thing would be. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Is there anything that you’d like to talk about that I hadn’t covered?
MR. BARTON: Well, there are people I’ve mentioned that are memorable. I wanted to talk a little bit about my blogging and how it connects to my experience in Oak Ridge. As I told you, my father did research on molten salt reactor technology. This project went on in Oak Ridge from the late 1940s into the present day. But most of the major research was shut down in 1969. This has become my most significant contact to my experience in Oak Ridge because I write about it in a blog that I am still working on. That blog is named “The Nuclear Green Revolution.” In it, I write about molten salt reactors and their potential for revolutionizing the global energy picture. This is a technology that was developed in Oak Ridge many years ago that holds enormous promise for – not just for the United States, but for everybody in the world. It is not well-known, although I and a number of other people are now talking about it and made it much better known than it once was. As a matter of fact, it’s been discussed in the British House of Lords. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Why do you think that technology’s not rekindled?
MR. BARTON: Because people and decision-makers have been unaware of its existence, and need to be made aware of its existence. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Is that technology safer than what they’re using now? 
MR. BARTON: Yes, it is extremely safe.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So you can get the same end result either way? 
MR. BARTON: Better performance than conventional reactors, costs less to build. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Somebody certainly needs to know something about it. 
MR. BARTON: Yes, they do. That’s why I started the blog about it. That establishes continuity because what I do today in 2013 and what my father started doing in 1950.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I think you should continue that. I think the world needs to know if there’s a better way to go back to that. 
MR. BARTON: Right. Thank you. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall there was reactor over in the X-10 area that was started on the Clinch River that never finished? They said it was outdated before it was finished. Do you remember that? 
MR. BARTON: Yes – although not from that. I do remember it because I did have some secondhand knowledge of it. That’s a gas-cooled reactor. I actually – the British built gas-cooled reactors, and Congress found out about it, ordered that one be built in the United States. But like many other things that Congress did in nuclear technology, they didn’t understand what they were doing. The British themselves have shut down or are shutting down all their gas-cooled reactors and replacing them with an ORNL technology – the water-cooled reactor. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was the difference in the knowledge that you’re talking and the one they started to build – the breeder reactor that was stopped?
MR. BARTON: The Molten Salt Breeder Reactor was simply a molten salt reactor that produced more fuel than it used. So it’s the same technology. It just accomplishes a little bit more. But there is plenty of uranium in the world right now. So we really don't need breeder reactors. What I think we should do is just go ahead and start building molten-salt reactors. There’s a gentleman in Canada, David LeBlanc who’s known to Oak Ridge National Laboratory scientists, who wants to do just that. He thinks he can start building them by 2021. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I wish him success. It sounds like that might be what this country needs in the future. 
MR. BARTON: Well, I do, too. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Charles, it’s been my pleasure to interview you. 
MR. BARTON: Thank you. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I thank you very much for your time and I think you interview will be an asset to the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History. 
MR. BARTON: I hope so. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Thank you again. 
[End of Interview]