Smallridge, Robert

              ORAL HISTORY OF ROBERT SMALLRIDGE, PH.D.
Interviewed by Blanche Dresner, Ed.D.
Filmed by Keith McDaniel
November 17, 2009
 
Dr. Dresner: Hello, Dr. Smallridge. It’s a pleasure to be here with you and get the opportunity to ask you some things about yourself. Why don’t you start with telling me about yourself, about your family, and some vital statistics? 
Dr. Smallridge: Okay. I’m originally from Rochester, New York. Came to Tennessee back in 1968 to go to graduate school, what I thought was going to be for one year and turned out it’s, I guess, about thirty-seven, thirty-eight years so far, but – married – my wife, Carol, has been very much involved in the community and a number of activities, including, when she first came, Welcome Wagon and Leadership Oak Ridge, and we have three children, grown children. They all live – well, two girls live here in Oak Ridge, and my son is working up in Kentucky, but he has a place in East Tennessee. And that’s kind of – and eleven grandchildren. I should mention that. 
 Dr. Dresner: That’s what I was going to ask you about. Surely you have some grandchildren. And do your children – you said your children live here in Oak Ridge with you.
Dr. Smallridge: My two girls – 
Dr. Dresner: Your two girls.
Dr. Smallridge: – live here in Oak Ridge, in fact, within five minutes of where we are, right here.
Dr. Dresner: So, even though you’re retired from the school system, you’re still very much involved in thinking about education with your grandchildren, in particular – 
Dr. Smallridge: Yes.
Dr. Dresner: – in the school system. Good, all right. Tell me, what are some of the organizations and activities that you are involved with.
Dr. Smallridge: Today?
Dr. Dresner: Yes, today.
Dr. Smallridge: Well, I’m involved with ORICL, the Oak Ridge Institute for Continued Learning. I’m on the Curriculum Committee. I’m responsible for the area of social science, try to develop courses, at least three or four courses for each term. That’s really a great organization, and we have about, I think, around four hundred – four or five hundred members. Clinch River, I am chairman of the board for Clinch River Home Health. Up until very recently, just within the last couple weeks, I’ve been on the board for Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic. I’m a long-time member of the Lions Club, since 1973, and I’m very much involved with United Way, been on their campaign board, so those are the major activities I’m involved in.
Dr. Dresner: So, now, even though you’re retired from your official employment, you’re still really not retired, being as active as you are. Is that right? 
Dr. Smallridge: Well, you know Oak Ridge. If you – you have to learn to say “no,” and I haven’t really learned how to say “no” yet, but yeah, it’s a good community to be involved.
Dr. Dresner: Good. Well, tell me something, Bob. When did you first decide to become an educator? 
Dr. Smallridge: I don’t know that there’s any specific time that I decided, “I want to be a teacher. I want to be an educator.” I knew I wanted to go to college. I knew my parents really couldn’t afford – they were, you know, struggling, like many people at that time, and I knew that I would have to pay for my education myself. So, the closest college was – this is up in New York – the closest college was Rockport, which was part of The State University of New York, and a teacher’s college. That was within about fifty miles of my home, so that meant I could come home on the weekend and work. I worked in a gas station and worked about twenty-three hours every weekend, so it just – it – and I had some friends that were going to Rockport, so you know, I ended up going there and graduating, and since it was a teacher’s college, kind of the natural thing was to go into education, because that’s – that was my degree. 
Dr. Dresner: But you didn’t find yourself unhappy with that choice?
Dr. Smallridge: No, no. As I got into it, of course, you know, had a lot to learn, but really decided I enjoyed education, and that’s where I’ve been for the past thirty-something years.
Dr. Dresner: Through your many years of schooling, can you say that you had a mentor or a professor who was influential upon your choice? 
Dr. Smallridge: I had some, you know, great teachers in high school, and a couple of professors in my BS degree, my bachelor’s degree, that really motivated me. One was a history professor that wanted me to go in and become a history major, but turned out, of course, I didn’t do that, and then an English professor. And both of them took an interest in me and, I guess, helped me to see that, you know, maybe I had something to offer. I don’t think I had a lot of confidence in myself at that point. And then in my graduate program, my major professor was Dr. Charles Faber, and he is really the one that – he’s the reason that I’m here in Oak Ridge, because he recommended – he – that I apply for – there was an opening for an assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction here in Oak Ridge, and he called me. He had moved to the University of Kentucky, but he called me and said, you know, “Bob, you might want to consider applying for that job,” and I did and was hired.
Dr. Dresner: Okay, and what year did you say that happened?
Dr. Smallridge: That happened in 1972.
Dr. Dresner: 1972, so you’ve been here almost as long as I have. When you were told about Oak Ridge and that you should apply for the job in Oak Ridge, did you have any sense of what Oak Ridge had been and what kind of city it was at the time you were making that decision?
Dr. Smallridge: Not very much, really. You know, I had only been in Tennessee about three years, and two of those years I was involved in the graduate program, which didn’t give me much time to travel the state or anything. So, I didn’t know an awful lot about Oak Ridge. Vaguely I knew they did something connected with the development of the atomic bomb, but specifically what that was, you know, I wasn’t sure. So, yeah, no, I really didn’t know a lot about Oak Ridge. 
Dr. Dresner: Did getting the sense of the role Oak Ridge played in the end of the war and developing – development of the atomic bomb, did you do any kind of research into, you know, further details before – did that have anything to do with your making a decision of, “Yes, I want to go there,” or, “No, I don’t”? 

Dr. Smallridge: No, it really didn’t. It was more the school system and what people told me about the school system, and it wasn’t very long after I had been here that I learned it was a very prestigious school system in terms of the state, and even nationally had some recognition, so that was the main factor in my decision. 
Dr. Dresner: Okay. Did you have any particular encounters or incidents that swayed your decision or you just made it all on your own? 
Dr. Smallridge: Well, we went – you know, of course, you know Oak Ridge. They have a very elaborate interview process, and during that process, I learned quite a bit about the school system and did – at that point, did a little research in the library, just going back through some newspapers and looking to see what some of the key issues were, what people were talking about in terms of the school system. And that’s really – was – helped me to make my decision.
Dr. Dresner: What were some of – what were your experiences prior to coming here? Were you simply just a student going into administration, or what were the other kind of educational experiences had you had in – up in Rochester, presumably, that prepared you for your role here?
Dr. Smallridge: Right. Well, I started out as a classroom teacher in 1959, I think it was, and started off teaching fourth grade, and that was some – I guess I spent about two and a half years in that. And we had a – I had a principal that was very helpful. At that time, our school district had developed an internship program. It was not connected with any college. It was just an independent internship. 

The idea of the superintendent was he would get someone fresh out of the classroom and bring them into the central office where they could learn, they could pick up some of the, let’s say, the less significant activities and tasks that they had. And then, maybe that person would go out and become an elementary principal, and so that’s exactly what happened with me. I spent a year, maybe a couple years in that internship, and then an elementary principalship opened up, and I moved into that. And so, that was pretty much my experience in Rochester, New York, before coming to Tennessee.
Dr. Dresner: So, you came here with that kind of administrative experience, and were you ever a supervisor of teachers so that you got a broader perspective? 
Dr. Smallridge: Right. As – yes. When I was in Nashville at Peabody College, I had an assistantship, and that assistantship was to supervise student teachers. I guess because of my background as a principal they thought that was something that I could do effectively, and I did that for a year. Worked in the Model Cities Program for a year, which also involved working with people who were trying to upgrade their professions and their tasks, and so those were very good experiences. 
Dr. Dresner: Do you feel those experiences helped you in your future role as assistant superintendent, and then later superintendent, and if so, in what way? 
Dr. Smallridge: Well, you know, I think working with teachers – supervising student teachers, obviously, is closely related to what you do as a principal, because as a principal, you’re working with your teachers. You’re learning to work through people, which is something you didn’t have to worry about so much as a classroom teacher. Yeah, those experiences helped. I think my experience as a principal was very valuable, because some of the issues we had to deal with maybe with a classroom teacher that was not being effective, that needed some help and finding a way to do that and get the person the assistance that he or she needed was very important. We had – when I was in Rochester as an elementary principal, we had a big influx of people that were – they were from Laos and from Vietnam, and they spoke very, very little English. But, you know, learning to – how do we integrate those kids into the school system, you know, all that kind of helped me to see that I enjoyed curriculum and instruction. I enjoyed that part of the job very much, and the experience helped a lot.
Dr. Dresner: Well, as superintendent of Oak Ridge schools, there were many challenges that faced you that, other than curriculum, other than curricular challenges, and especially since Oak Ridge was such a unique kind of community, how did you feel about going into really almost another kind of role of not just being an educator, but being sort of an educator and a politician, do you think, at the same time? 
Dr. Smallridge: I don’t know if I – politician is the right word, but yeah, it was a different role coming to Oak Ridge, because it was a much more – you are much more visible, and that was something that I did not experience as much in Rochester. We had ten different school systems within our county, so each school system was not necessarily a focal point, you know, where you – but, in Oak Ridge, the Oak Ridge schools, you know, very much a focal point for the community, and so everything you did was very public. And that was something that I had to get used to, because I just didn’t have that experience, or I didn’t have much of that experience in Rochester.
Dr. Dresner: Did you find that in Oak Ridge your hand was guided not just by administration and policies of the school system, but with a little bit of parent help, you know, citizen help? How active were the people in the town, the community in helping you run the school system?
Dr. Smallridge: Well, you know, I never lacked for a lot of advice, but yeah, parents were very much – I think we had active PTAs at each of the schools. I met once a month with the central PTA council, system-wide PTA council we called it, representatives from each of the buildings that came together, and that was very valuable in terms of just alerting me to issues, to problems that might be developing. And it also gave me, as superintendent, a sounding board that I could take things to them that we were considering and looking at and saying, “Well, what do you think about this? What about this alternative?” So, yes, it was very valuable, and we had parents that were very much interested in the school system, very concerned and willing to help out in any way they could.
Dr. Dresner: All right, Bob, what did you like most about your job? What was the most – the thing you woke up in the morning before you left for work and thought, “I’m really going to get into this”? 
Dr. Smallridge: I’d have to say probably getting out into the schools and actually talking, well, not only with the principals, but the teachers who, you know, were at the point where the work was being done and just chatting with them informally. I found that I always picked up good information, and not only from teachers, but from the custodian or the secretary. They would share something with me that later on, you know, would help me as I was dealing with some problem, because it was just a piece of the puzzle, a piece of information that was very helpful. I always enjoy – my dissertation dealt with the degree of participative management exercised by the principal related to the satisfaction of teachers. So, I always felt that was important to get that input, and a good way to do that was to get out to the schools and talk with the teachers and the other employees in an informal manner. 
Dr. Dresner: Did you ever feel the need to get back into the classroom, or did you ever have the opportunity to get back into the classroom to do any kind of teaching? 
Dr. Smallridge: Not very much. Once in a while they’d have some kind of a special day where we would, you know, the administrators would come into the classroom and take over for a few hours, but that wasn’t really very extensive and didn’t happen very often. I would’ve liked – I would’ve enjoyed that, I think, very much.
Dr. Dresner: What was some – what were some things that you liked least about your job that were either the most difficult things for you to do or the most unpleasant thing, just things that you wished they weren’t that way?
Dr. Smallridge: I’d have to say the budget process. I mean, we spent a lot of time, as you know, with each building getting a budget from the building, from the different departments, and we would look at those very carefully and have to make some hard decisions every year about what we would include in the budget and what we would leave out in terms of what we presented to the Board of Education. And then, we’d have public hearings. We’d have work sessions with the Board of Education, and finally, the Board would adopt the budget. Well, we weren’t done at that point. Then, we had to go on to City Council and kind of go through maybe not quite as detailed a process, but they would, you know, ask some tough questions, so we were kind of, in a sense, having to justify everything twice. And – but, at the same token, I’ll have to say that during my time there, City Council was very fair in terms of their willingness to give us additional funds. They – you know, we worked very closely with them. I think we developed a level of trust that allowed them to say, “Well, okay, I believe what the Oak Ridge schools are saying they need is truly what they need,” so that – but, that was one of the toughest. There are things that I won’t say was all that tough, but it was a long, drawn-out process.
Dr. Dresner: Did you see that level of trust grow through your years, or do you think it didn’t grow as much as you would’ve liked to have seen it grow? 
Dr. Smallridge: No, I think it definitely grew during the years. I don’t think we had that in the beginning. Of course, at one point, the Council – I think we – when I first came, they had twelve members on the Council, and that made it more difficult. I think it helped when they reduced down to seven and, you know, you could communicate more effectively with seven than you can with twelve. And so – and they were elected – I guess they were elected at large. That made a difference, too.
Dr. Dresner: Okay, you yourself, how much did your philosophy change over time as your administrative experience grew and you learned more? Did your philosophy of things change? 
Dr. Smallridge: Yeah. No, I don’t think it really changed that much. No, I always – when I came, Oak Ridge already had some mechanisms in place for involvement of people, whether it was the staff meeting once a month, representatives from each building, the student council with students coming from the junior highs and the high school, parent – I’ve mentioned already the PTA council, so I think those mechanisms were in place for participation. And that kind of was part of my basic philosophy that if you’re going to make – you know, if you’re going to lead, you have to know what people are thinking. You have to give them a chance to provide input before you make those key decisions, so as I say, those – a lot of those things, most of those things were in place before I came. I hope we strengthened them by some of the things that we did over the years. 
Dr. Dresner: All right, were there any social or political or economic issues that most – that impacted your job more than another, one over another? 
Dr. Smallridge: Well, I think when I first came – and this was, you know, in the early ’70s – but the late ’60s and the early ’70s was still a time of certain amount of racial stress, or whatever you want to call it. And some of those issues came to the forefront and really impacted the schools as well as the whole community, so I think that was one issue that we had to work through and get to the point where there was a certain level of trust between the black community and the Oak Ridge schools, and I hope we reached that point. Oh, other issues, I think prayer was – became an issue at one point. We – at a football game, we used to have someone in the community, a minister or someone in the community say a prayer, and some people objected to that, mainly because I think some of the prayers got very personal and, you know �� and we tried to talk with the different ministers to say, “Okay, you know, keep in mind that we have a very diverse community, and when you pray, maybe you cannot make it so specific.” But, obviously, some of them said to me, “Well, don’t ask me to – ” you know, “Don’t tell me I can’t pray with what is the most significant part of my own religious belief.” So, we did get a challenge to that, and I decided maybe the best way, or I think maybe in conjunction with the chairman of the board at the time decided that maybe one of the best things to do was to get an opinion from the attorney general of the state. So I guess that was, in a sense, kind of an easy way out, but I was pretty sure what the decision would be, and of course, when that came back, an attorney general said, “No, that’s not permissible. That’s not legal. No prayer.” And that caused a lot of furor in the community. There were a lot of people very, very upset with that. I noticed in the paper this morning that the ACLU has filed a lawsuit against Cheatham County over the fact that they distribute the Gideon Bibles and some prayer issues in the school. So I guess that’s still a problem in some places, but I think we’ve gotten beyond that. Maybe the other thing was special education. You know, that had a big impact when the law – well, I think Tennessee was even ahead of the federal law with the Weldon Act. You remember that, Blanche. 
Dr. Dresner: Yes.
Dr. Smallridge: You know that very well. And that, you know, we had to kind of adjust our thinking. There were some new regulations and new requirements. We had to work maybe a little more closely with parents, and that caused, for a while, I think, until we adjusted, caused some concerns amongst the staff. 
Dr. Dresner: And I think in Oak Ridge you probably had many parents who were never shy or hesitant about offering an opinion or making a request for something. 
Dr. Smallridge: No.
Dr. Dresner: Was that true?
Dr. Smallridge: That’s very true, yeah, and it’s something we had to learn to work through. You know, they could ask for a hearing, and in many cases, as you know, they did ask for a hearing, and an outside – someone from outside the school system would come in and hear the case, hear the school district’s side and hear the parents’ side and then make a decision, what was the correct thing to do. 
Dr. Dresner: Yes, that’s true. And I must say that Oak Ridge, I think, conducted itself in the finest tradition of education always, and thanks to you, who – you were at the helm at the time, so – 
Dr. Smallridge: Well, thank you. 
Dr. Dresner: All right, in retrospect, would you have done anything differently while you served as superintendent of schools, and if so, what? 
Dr. Smallridge: You know, you always have to think of what information you had at the time or what knowledge you had at the time, and – you know, I – one thing I think maybe would’ve been to move a little more expeditiously on replacing buildings or renovating facilities. I think we tended in Oak Ridge to spend our money on instruction and what we thought would have the most immediate impact on the students. And maybe our facilities got neglected there for a little – for a while, but we eventually – I think we eventually did a good job. We had new Glenwood. We renovated the middle schools. We renovated the high school. We renovated the elementary school, so it took us a while to get going, but I think once we did and we were able to pass some bond referendums, it provided the funds to do what we needed to do. The other issue, I guess, as I think back, maybe we could’ve been a little more proactive in working with the black community. You know, our test data always looked very good, and from year to year, it looked good. But, when you disaggregate that data, you know, we saw that our black youngsters were not doing as well as we would wish, you know, that they would, and I think people, parents in the community saw that and wanted to see, you know, “Can we – ” you know, “What can we do differently? What can we do to strengthen the academic program for those students?” And they were very actively involved in bringing that to our attention, so probably we could’ve been a little more proactive there.
Dr. Dresner: Okay, well, in retrospect, also, what were the greatest challenges in smoothing out all of these or in working through all of the problems that you just spoken about? Do you feel that they were resolved positively, or were there still issues hanging on as far as race relations, as far as drugs in the schools, you know, kind of rough issues?
Dr. Smallridge: Yeah, I hope over time that we dealt with some of those issues to lessen their impact and responded to concerns that parents had. In terms of drugs and that, I don’t know. That’s a problem. Of course, you know, it’s kind of like there are other problems, just smoking, I mean, traditional smoking is still a problem with young people, obesity. You know, we’re just hearing more and more about that with kids, and I think you have to deal with those issues through education and hope eventually – and pointing out to parents and the kids, you know, the problems that these things are going to cause later on, whether it’s smoking or obesity or drugs and what those things can lead to. And I don’t know how you do it other than education and showing people, you know, what might be the impact of getting involved with those things. 
Dr. Dresner: All right, one of the presentations you gave early in your career was on decisions that school boards should leave to administrators and vice versa. Could you share some of those thoughts, please?
Dr. Smallridge: Well, you know, keep in mind I was speaking to a cross section of school board members from across the state, rural, city, and I think Oak Ridge, and it goes back to something I mentioned earlier. It had mechanisms for involving staff in decision-making. And I think some of the school districts that were – really didn’t have those kind of mechanisms. They made decisions in a different way, whether it was maybe a school board member who said, “I want to look – I want to appoint – ” you know, in essence, “I want to appoint the principal of this building.” And that was happening in a lot of districts. I think Oak Ridge was the exception. We had a good set of policies that define the role of the administration and the role of the school board, and I think, for the most part, the school board stuck to that. They did not get involved in the day-to-day operation of the school system or hiring of personnel, but as I say, that was not necessarily true in many school systems, so I was speaking, you know, we need to leave these decisions – the budget, policies – to the school board and let the administration implement those decisions. So I don’t know how effective that was, but anyway, that was my pitch. 
Dr. Dresner: Okay. Well, you were and still are very involved in Oak Ridge civic activities. Which civic roles, during your tenure as superintendent, gave you the most satisfaction?
Dr. Smallridge: Okay. I think being involved with United Way was – just because it gave me knowledge and information about thirty-some other agencies in the community, in the county that, for the most part, were providing assistance to children in some cases, and to adults. So, you know, I certainly enjoyed being – and I’m – and I still am working with United Way. ORICL, you may be familiar with this, the Oak Ridge Institute for Continued Learning, and I just like the idea very much of people continuing their education, not worrying about grades or anything, but just their general interest in continued education, and I think it’s a great organization. I think I’ve mentioned it already. It has about four hundred, five hundred members. Those are a couple that I – I have been a long-time member of the Lions Club since – I was a charter member of the Lions Club in 1973 and continue to be involved with them.
Dr. Dresner: I suspect there are many children in the school system today who would like that – like those same principles as in ORICL, you know, no grades, no homework, just go to school and learn. But, what do you think – in light of that, what do you think about this new Tennessee Diploma Project which is being discussed, which is going to put more requirements on the children?
Dr. Smallridge: Yes. I think it’s going to make it difficult for some children, and – but, on the other side, I think some type of a standard assessment needs to be in place. You know, I saw some statistics the other day that – with the state achievement test, our eighth graders, I guess it was back in 2005, had scored like eighty-seven percent proficient in math, and I think the same in reading. When those same students were checked on the national – educational national – I’ve forgotten the – the NAEP, but it’s the National Assessment of Educational Progress. They scored like, I don’t know, the twentieth, twenty-fifth percentile, so you know, something’s not right there. Either our standards are much too easy –and I really think that’s the case. I’ve heard that from a lot of teachers and administrators who feel that our state standards were set at a level that the state would look good, but really, you know, not – the kids were not as proficient as that seemed to indicate. So, that’s one thing, I think, needs – you know, is very – will be very good. It’ll give us a – kind of the same measurement across the board. It’s also requiring, what, three years of math – no, I think four years of math and up through, at least up through Algebra 2, and then kids will have to take three units of science, and they have to take either physics or chemistry. That’s going to be a stretch for some of our kids, and we’re going to have to really find ways to work with them and help them, you know, progress and be able to handle those subjects, because it’s not going to be easy. And then, there’s end-of-the-year tests in a number – English, math, and they – and I think that’s going to count for like twenty-five percent of their grade, so I think there’s some real challenges. On the other hand, I think that we do need to strengthen our standards.
Dr. Dresner: What you say is all, you know, very true, and in a way, almost a little scary, because I want to know the standards are good, and we do have to have expectations. But, what do we do about those children who are – whom we know are not going to be able to meet those standards? Are provisions being made for them? 
Dr. Smallridge: It’s been a while since I looked at that information, but yes, there is a provision for some alternate types of assessment and courses for students with disabilities, but even those students are going to be required to do more than I think maybe they’re doing right now. But, there are some exceptions in the law for students with disabilities. 
Dr. Dresner: And I hope we’re planning on putting in provisions for those students so that they can learn whatever they need to learn to pass their set of standards.
Dr. Smallridge: Yeah. And by the way, I saw in, again, a recent newspaper article that Ohio was using – they’re taking it a step above national standards. They are comparing their kids with international standards. In other words, how do our kids compare with Japan, China and so on, so you know, that may be the next step in this whole assessment/accountability movement.
Dr. Dresner: One of the things in many European places, they go to school on Saturday, and they go to school after school in the afternoon, so are we willing to make those kinds of concessions? That will be interesting. Well, how do you feel about making lasting systemic changes in the Tennessee educational system? Is that a possibility? Do we have to change it at the roots, or can we just fix what we have right now and it’ll be okay? 
Dr. Smallridge: I think it’s going to be a tough – it’s going to be tough to change things dramatically, and it’s going to take time to do that. I think one of the principals that you – P-A-L – principals that you know and I know and I worked with for a long time feels that one factor that seems to be missing is for kids to take more of an interest and to be willing to work hard to do well in school, the student himself or herself. And I think that’s true. He says that he saw, over time, fewer students that are willing to pay the price to work hard, to take an interest in their education, and part of that is tied in with parents who are very busy. Many – and, you know, in lots of cases, both parents are working. In the time they’re able or willing to spend with their students, with their children is not like it used to be, so I think it’s going to take some of that. We need a response on the part of parents and students, and we need to make sure that we’re, as a school system, we’re doing the kinds of things that are going to allow them – kids – to be successful in the more, you know, academic, the more difficult courses. 
Dr. Dresner: Well, if I’m correct, the image of the Oak Ridge school system has always been that of, you know, children out of “Science City,” that they’re just as brilliant and able to be successful as their parents were, the parents who came here before them. Do you think that continues to be true, or is the caliber or level of people coming into Oak Ridge – are things changing so that children coming in aren’t as interested in learning or aren’t as interested in science? 
Dr. Smallridge: Well, I think you know there is a relationship between socioeconomic level and educational attainment, and our demographics, from everything I understand, you know, have changed somewhat. And if we just use the measurement like the number of kids on free and reduced-price lunch has grown pretty dramatically in the Oak Ridge schools, and if there is – if you do believe there’s that relationship between socioeconomic level and education, then I think we’re probably seeing, you know, some of that, too. On the other hand, we have a tremendous group of parents that are very interested in education, and I think all parents are interested in education. It’s just some of them may not have as much wherewithal or background in order to help their students as much as we would like, but yeah, I think there is some, definitely some change in the demographics of the community. But that’s no excuse. We’ve got to continue to do well, and we – I think generally we are doing well.
Dr. Dresner: I agree. But what do you feel best represents your educational legacy? What has been your biggest contribution to education in Oak Ridge? 
Dr. Smallridge: Well, I think Oak Ridge had – was an excellent school system, you know, long before I came. I mean, just when I came into the school system, you know, I was amazed. I would go out to a meeting, you know, or conference, and just the fact that I was from Oak Ridge, people would take notice, and I maybe had some instant credibility just by virtue of the fact that I was employed by the Oak Ridge schools. And we had some very, very well-known superintendents, you know, prior to my coming to Oak Ridge who, you know, even on a national scene had tremendous impact. You know, one superintendent went on to Dade County School System, so I think all those things were in place, and I hope that during my twenty years as superintendent – I hope that I helped to maintain that excellence and the reputation of the Oak Ridge schools. I guess that would be, if I have a legacy, that would – I would point to that. 
Dr. Dresner: Good. Well, one other thing is what aspect of your life would you like to or could you talk about that has had the most influence on you personally? 
Dr. Smallridge: Personally, well, I’d have to point to my family. You know, my wife has been very much – she’s such a plus. The fact that I was superintendent and she was so involved in the community and so highly respected that, you know, that made a difference, and of course, my children. The other thing I would say, just the – the – my colleagues in the community and, excuse me, in the school system. Like, the people that I worked with day in and day out were just – I mean, I learned so much from them. It was tremendous. It was a tremendous opportunity to come to an excellent school system with outstanding teachers and administrators, and school board members, also.
Dr. Dresner: What was your most memorable moment? Does something just stick out in your mind over the years?
Dr. Smallridge: Well, a couple of things come to mind. One was under the Sister City Program. I had an opportunity to go to Japan with the mayor and spend a week there, and then I also had an opportunity to go to Russia. Obninsk was our sister city in Russia, so I had never been out of the – well, I’d been to Canada and Mexico, but I had never really been to Europe at all, or to Japan or to Asia. So, that was pretty special for me. The other thing, we were part of the National Governors project, and as such, I had an opportunity to meet two presidents, President Reagan and President Bush, the first George Bush, and actually sit down and have lunch with – well, not at the same table, but in the same room, to sit down and have lunch with them and hear what they had to say. And so, those are two experiences that I remember very well.
Dr. Dresner: Did you find that the educational systems in either Russia or Japan were similar to what we had here, different? Were there things that you said, “Ah, we need to do that,” or, “We shouldn’t ever do that”?
Dr. Smallridge: Well, just from a cursory view, I think the systems were very different. You know, in Japan, Japan’s a very homogeneous community, as you know. You spent a year there, and as you mentioned, their students go to school all day, and then they go to juku schools on Saturday and after school to make sure that they were keeping their studies up and would have the opportunity to get into the best secondary schools and then to college. So there seemed to be like a – just such an overall dedication to education on the part of the students and on the part of the parents, and so maybe that was because it was a very – or it is a very homogeneous community. In Russia, from what I was able to see in a very short time, they had more of a tracking system. You know, you went in to vocational education. Their special education students were separated not only in the school, but into separate schools, and then versus the academic, more of a tracking system, so yeah, they’re – those are things that come to mind when I think of their school systems.
Dr. Dresner: What was your most difficult moment in all of your years in education? Did you have a difficult moment? 
Dr. Smallridge: Well, I mentioned one already was the prayer issue, which was very controversial in the community and just created a furor in the community, although it didn’t last for a long time. But, you know, at one point, we had the Atlanta Constitution, we had the New York Times coming, you know, because of that, our decision to discontinue prayer. Even though I had the backing of the attorney general for the state, it was still a very hot issue. Let’s see, I think more recently the Spanish Immersion Program, which was a very good program, and you know, that’s where the students, as you know, the students are immersed for a half a day in the target language, which, in our case, was Spanish. So, they’re taught for a half a day using nothing but Spanish language, and I think that was math, and I can’t remember the other subject, whether it was social studies, but – and it was a very good program. It was effective, and I do think if you want to teach foreign language, immersion is probably the best way to do that. However, it was having some side effects that it was kind of separating our kids, where the stronger academic kids were in the Spanish immersion class, and some of the kids with more problems, whether it was learning disability, reading problems, lower socioeconomic level – we looked at all that data, and it kind of said to us we were separating our classes, you know, and – so, reluctantly, you know, I made a recommendation to the board to discontinue the Spanish immersion, and that was, you know, a popular decision with some people, very – and not popular at all with a large group of people. And it passed the board, I think, on a three-two vote, so – but, that was – we had a task force. We looked at everything. We looked at the data, and then I made the recommendation, but that was a tough decision.
Dr. Dresner: And that’s probably an issue that will continue, I’m sure.
Dr. Smallridge: It probably will. 
Dr. Dresner: In closing, let me ask you what advice would you have for anyone who wanted to go into the field of educational administration?
Dr. Smallridge: Well, I think there’s some great opportunities to make a difference, and I would encourage people to go into it, recognizing that you’re going to put in some long days, some long hours. You��re going to have – you’re going to be dealing with controversy at times, because there’s not always a, you know, easy decision or not always a black-and-white decision in terms of some issue. I would say, you know, learn how to communicate. You just need to communicate, and part of that I think is very important is to do – is be a good listener and recognize that people want to be heard. They want, at least, to have the opportunity to tell you what they think and what needs to be done. You may not always act on that, but you know, it’s important for people to have that opportunity, and I think those are some of the things that you better expect if you’re going into administration, that you’re going to have some tough situations. And you’re kind of going to be in the middle. You know, you’ve got your parents and your kids, and then you’ve got the people that you are supervising, your teachers, and sometimes, you know, those are – you’re not always on the same page, so you have to recognize that. 
Dr. Dresner: Well, and do you feel if you had your life to do over again that (a) you would become a school administrator and (b) you would come to a town like Oak Ridge? 
Dr. Smallridge: I think I can answer both of those with a yes, yeah. I would – I’ve enjoyed my time in education, and specifically in administration, and yeah, Oak Ridge, definitely. I think it’s a great community. People are very supportive of education. You know, when I would go out and talk about our budget process and the support we got from the city and the people would say, “Gee, I wish our school district could have that,” you know, “have that kind of support.” So, I think it’s a great place to be, and Oak Ridge is a great place to be in education.
Dr. Dresner: Well, I thank you. Thank you very much. 
Dr. Smallridge: Thank you. 
[end of recording]