Wulk, Francis

              
ORAL HISTORY OF FRANCIS WULK
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
December 5, 2013

 
MR. HUNNICUTT: This interview is for the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History.  The date is December the 4th.
MRS. WULK: 5th.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	5th, I am sorry, 2013.  My name is Don Hunnicutt.  I am in the home of Frances Wulk, 25 Dogwood Road, Norris, Tennessee, to take her oral history about living in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.  Francis, please state your full name, place of birth and the date of your birth including your maiden name.
MRS. WULK: Francis Harris Wulk.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And where were you born?
MRS. WULK: Sumner, Mississippi.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And the date.
MRS. WULK: March the 12th, 1930.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was your father’s name and his place of birth and date if you recall?
MRS. WULK: His name is David M. Harris.  I am not sure of his date of birth.  I mean his place of birth.  I think it was somewhere in Mississippi, but I am not sure.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How about your mother’s maiden name and place of birth?
MRS. WULK: Mother’s name was Mary Zanier.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And…
MRS. WULK: She was born in Indiana and her birthday was June the 12th, 1908.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about your grandparents’ name on your father’s side, their names?
MRS. WULK: I didn’t know my grandfather on Daddy’s side.  His mother was Alice Lillian Smith was her maiden name and Harris was her married name.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall where they lived?
MRS. WULK: No.  She lived with us off and on and lived with her other, you know, took turns with her three sons because my grandfather had died real early I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you recall about your father’s school history?
MRS. WULK: High school and I know he went to Mississippi State, played football for a couple of years, but he did not graduate there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about your mother’s school history?
MRS. WULK: As far as I remember Mother’s was only high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You have brothers and sisters?
MRS. WULK: I have one brother.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And his name?
MRS. WULK: David Harris.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And is he still living?
MRS. WULK: Yes.  He lives in Memphis, Tennessee.  He retired from the Navy and settled there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What type of work did your father do?
MRS. WULK: He was a carpenter.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And tell me again the name of the town that you were born in?
MRS. WULK: Sumner, Mississippi.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So where about in Mississippi is that located?
MRS. WULK: It’s in the Delta.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And your mother did she work outside the home?
MRS. WULK: Not in my early years she didn’t but when we came to a -- well she worked some when we lived in Spring City, but then when we came to Oak Ridge she worked.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Is that Spring City, Tennessee?
MRS. WULK: Tennessee.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you remember about your early school days when you were in Mississippi?
MRS. WULK: Well, they left Mississippi when I was quite young.  First grade school was in Athens, Alabama.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And do you recall what that atmosphere was like?
MRS. WULK: It was very good.  I had a wonderful first grade teacher and she was also my Sunday school teacher. For some reason there was several others in the first grade with me that she felt we didn’t need to go to second grade and she did a few weeks of summer school on her porch and graduate, moved on us up to the third grade so I skipped a grade.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Well, when you went to the third grade do you recall how you blended in with the third graders?
MRS. WULK: Well, my brother was in third grade so I don’t recall that I had any problems.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember your third grade teacher’s name?
MRS. WULK: No.  I don’t.  My first grade teacher, I guess, made such an impression on me.  Every time I go back to Athens, Alabama, I always made a point to go see her.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now why did the family move to Athens, Alabama, do you recall?
MRS. WULK: I guess that was when Daddy, Daddy worked with TVA, that’s about all I can remember. He worked on Watts Bar Dam which is Muscles Shoals  and all, and then he travelled around with TVA so.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So how long did you live in Athens?
MRS. WULK: We left Athens, I think I was about probably about three or four when they moved to Athens and then we moved to Rock, yeah we moved to Rockwood, Tennessee.  Daddy went to work for TVA and we were there for a short while but I didn’t finish a year at Rockwood then we moved to Spring City closer to Watts Bar Dam where he was working.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So he worked on the original construction for Watts Bar Dam.
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And still as a carpenter.
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you recall the family from an economical standpoint?  How was the family, were you below average or average or do you recall?
MRS. WULK: I guess we are probably average.  I don’t recall, I don’t recall any class discrimination or anything as far as being below poverty or anything.  I just remember we always had plenty to eat.  Clothes, mother made most of our clothes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What type of clothes do the girls were wearing those days to school?
MRS. WULK: Skirts and blouses I believe was about it.  I know back then you weren’t allowed to wear shorts or pants to school.  In fact, even in Oak Ridge High School we hardly ever wore pants.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about shoes. What type of shoes do girls wear?
MRS. WULK: They were lace up shoes. I think probably Oxford or whatever.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Is your brother older or younger than you?
MRS. WULK: He is older than I am a year and a half older.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah.  Did you sense any kind of problems with your brother being older than you and you being a girl?
MRS. WULK: I guess our biggest problem was he resented me being in the same class with him because in the early years we had to share a desk and that was in the early grades and the desk were just double and there was always two students to a desk and I think maybe he kind of resented that.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now when you got to Rockwood, finally got to Rockwood, Tennessee, what do you recall the schooling was like versus where you came from in Alabama?
MRS. WULK: I really can’t recall any difference.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was the school house bigger or more kids?
MRS. WULK: No.  I think it was probably about the same because Athens, Alabama, wasn’t a very large city either and might have been a little bit larger than Rockwood, but not much.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall what the house look like when you lived in Rockwood?
MRS. WULK: Actually we lived in a trailer.  It was a 36-foot trailer and was very convenient, very comfortable and we lived in that.  We move that even to Spring City and lived in it then.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember where it was located in Rockwood, address or anything?
MRS. WULK: No.  I don’t remember the address or anything.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about in Spring City?
MRS. WULK: I don’t remember the address in Spring City.  I can go back to it but I don’t remember the address.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So during the time that you lived in Spring City what was Christmas time like?
MRS. WULK: That’s taking me back long ways.  It was very good.  I mean we always, I can remember, I can remember the year I got my bicycle and my brother was glad I finally got one because he didn’t like sharing his but it was very convenient very nice and for the time I think it was very fulfilling.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you a tomboy or were you just, you know, a girl?
MRS. WULK: I was a tomboy, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So your brother sure was glad you got a bicycle for sure.  Why did your parents move to Oak Ridge?
MRS. WULK: To go to work, make better money, make a better living.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you first heard that you were going to be moving to Oak Ridge what was your reaction?
MRS. WULK: Devastated.  I know my best girlfriend we both cried and cried and beg Mother and Daddy to let me stay in Spring City and live with them but back then you know the kids didn’t have a whole lot of say when you were moving and why you were moving no.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall what year that was you came to Oak Ridge?
MRS. WULK: It was 1943.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And when you first came to Oak Ridge did your father come first and---?
MRS. WULK: No, Mother came first.  She went to work in August of ‘43.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what did she do?
MRS. WULK: For her first job was, chauffeur.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And do you recall who she might have chauffeured any particular person?
MRS. WULK: All of the hot top brass of course, I didn’t know any of the names until much later but I think General Groves was one of them. Always she was to be sent to the airport with a name of not knowing who she was picking up but just a name that she was to pick up and take back to Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So your mother came first and got a job and then what happened after that?
MRS. WULK: I don’t remember when Dad came up but it must have been shortly after that.  I don’t know whether you know he finished up something at the dam in Spring City or they noticed or what but I am sure he came up with just in a few weeks.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So would your mother drive back and forth from Oak Ridge to Spring City?
MRS. WULK: No, at that time she had a brother living in Knoxville and we stayed with them.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So your mother and you and your brother came.
MRS. WULK: Um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And your father stayed behind.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So when you stayed with relatives in Knoxville what school did you go to there?
MRS. WULK: Name slipped right by me.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall where the house was located, maybe that?
MRS. WULK: It was on Woodvine Avenue and there was school just close to it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Would that be Fulton?
MRS. WULK: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	No that’s high school.
MRS. WULK: That’s high school.  It was elementary.  It’s Park Haven.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah I remember the school but I can’t recall it either.
MRS. WULK: I can’t either.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So how did you remember going to school there versus in the Spring City?
MRS. WULK: It was very different because it was much bigger.  It was much, much larger, more children and everything and one (inaudible) going to we moved down to Oak Ridge so I didn’t make any good friendships or anything in Knoxville. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What grade would that have been?
MRS. WULK: Freshmen in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So when the family moved from Knoxville out to Oak Ridge where did you first live?
MRS. WULK: 188 Atlanta Avenue, East Village.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what type of house was that?
MRS. WULK: Two bedroom flattop.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Describe to me what a flattop is.
MRS. WULK: It looks like a cracker box and on stilts with a flattop roof.  It was a small living room with kitchen off of it, short hallway and then two bedrooms and a bath.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have your own bedroom?
MRS. WULK: No.  We didn’t stay in the two bedrooms very long.  I guess that was the first one they could have assign us and but then it wasn’t long until we got a three bedroom flattop.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And where was it located?
MRS. WULK: It was on Hutchinson Circle.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You remember the number.
MRS. WULK: Not right off, no.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How do you recall the flattop was heated?
MRS. WULK: There was a I guess you call warm heater in the center of the living room or off to the center anyway then Stone Webster or who it was you know they delivered coal to your coal boxes and…
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where were the coal boxes located?
MRS. WULK: Just outside the side, you know, the walkway out there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Near the street.
MRS. WULK: Um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So they would fill the coal boxes and of course, you had to go get the coal.
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember what they did with the ashes out of the coal stoves?
MRS. WULK: No, I don’t and I think it was coal.  No, I am pretty sure it was coal instead of wood.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	If I remember at the flattop was full furnished and you just kind of moved in them.
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So when you lived there what school did you attend?
MRS. WULK: Oak Ridge High School.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah.  How did you get to school when you lived there?
MRS. WULK: There were buses, city buses.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And your mother was still a chauffeur.
MRS. WULK: I think she still was at that time, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When did your father come to Oak Ridge?
MRS. WULK: Oh he came just before we even moved to Oak Ridge.  He came up to Knoxville and I just don’t remember exactly the time span between Mother getting a job and him getting a job.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did he have a job in Oak Ridge as well?
MRS. WULK: Yes, um huh.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What did he do?
MRS. WULK: He was a carpenter so I guess he did a lot of different things.  I am really not sure.  He was with Roane Anderson first.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now Roane Anderson do you recall what their job was?  What they were here for in Oak Ridge?
MRS. WULK: Maintaining the residential communities as well as the business buildings I assume.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Before you started did the family move to Oak Ridge during the summer or during beginning of the school year do you remember?
MRS. WULK: It was late ‘43 because the high school was not ready to occupy when school should have started.  I think it was the end of October before the school was where we could get into it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where was high school located?
MRS. WULK: On the hill above Jackson Square.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you remember about your first day attending the high school?
MRS. WULK: Climbing that hill.  There really wasn’t a walkway up to the hill.  It was kind of a, I guess, just a pathway and in the rainy season there was a lot of the rainy season it was just walking up the hill in the mud.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now did the bus let you off down in the Jackson Square area?
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And then you had to walk from there.
MRS. WULK: And then you had to walk, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So when you first attended the high school what was some of the classes that you took?
MRS. WULK: Of course, the basic things, you know, it was math and English.  I can’t remember right off the others.  I know later on I took home economics and I don’t know if that was the first year or not.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember some of your teachers your first year?
MRS. WULK: I can’t remember if they were math teachers or just the teachers that I remember in Oak Ridge.  Margaret Mars was one of the favorite teachers all times up there.  Mazel Turner, Mr. Rod, Ms. Rudolf, she was home economics teacher.  Mr. Thompson was shop teacher.  Ben Martin was the athletics teacher. Let’s see, I’m trying to think of some of the others but like I say it’s hard to remember which ones were my specific teachers because there were some great teachers in there in the early years.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you feel like that you were prepared when you got to the high school from your other school?
MRS. WULK: I assume so.  I don’t remember having any difficulties other than getting your getting your homework done and I know we did have excellent teachers because just reading different things of the past, they talked about how they went out and got the best teachers to hire for Oak Ridge High School.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have physical education classes?
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall what they had you do in those classes?
MRS. WULK: Oh there was a lot of calisthenics.  Sometimes we played the volleyball.  It was just the usual academics I am sure.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So in the summer time, between your freshmen and next year in school, what did you do for fun and enjoyment?
MRS. WULK: Oh that’s taking me way back.  By then you know we had made some friendships in the neighborhood and all and it was just going downtown, buy ice cream, didn’t go to the swimming pool very much and early years one of the really nice swimming pools better than it is now but...
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you speak of downtown where would that have been?
MRS. WULK: Jackson Square.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall where your mother did her grocery shopping?
MRS. WULK: I guess it was right there in Jackson Square.  I know at one time there was an A&P Store there.  I am not sure, you know, what the other grocery stores were.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	About how far was the house on Hutchinson Circle from Jackson Square?
MRS. WULK: Ooh it was too far to walk but…
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Is Hutchinson Circle off the Hillside?
MRS. WULK: It’s off of Hillside but it’s just one street up from Pennsylvania Avenue.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah that would be probably maybe a three or four miles walk I guess.
MRS. WULK: Yeah I guess it would.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you still have your bicycle when you were in high school?
MRS. WULK: I don’t think so.  I don’t remember it.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you still a tomboy in those days?
MRS. WULK: I was beginning to get out a little bit.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah.  What about attending the movie theatres in Jackson Square. Did you do much of that?
MRS. WULK: Not a whole lot but I did occasionally, yes, because that was one of the things there was to do, you know.  Yeah, I guess I did go to the movies probably once a weekend or something.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did the family have a car?
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now when your father worked for Roane Anderson and of course, your mother was she still working as the chauffeur?
MRS. WULK: Not as a, chauffeur.  She had already changed and I don’t remember just when but she was also one of the cubicle operators at Y-12.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember her ever saying anything about her job or any let’s go back to the chauffeur, do you recall any incidents that she talked about that was kind of particular?
MRS. WULK: Afterwards you know in the later years.  I wish I had gotten more information from her, you know, but I remember saying that she didn’t know what she was doing.  She was just driving a car and said she might be riding along and the guy whoever she was with said, “I want to go to the top of that hill over there,” and she said might be just a way to get through the trees and she would take them to the top of the hill, didn’t know what they want to do up there but I was sure she had some interesting experiences but she never told about them.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	She must be a skilled driver to be able to drive on those non-roads in those days.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your father like what he was doing do you recall?
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was he just doing a generalized carpentry and whatever work they needed done?
MRS. WULK: I think so.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah so what was your mother’s -- did she relate any of the information about her next job as a cubicle operator?
MRS. WULK: No.  She worked shift work and but other than that nothing.  I am not even sure she ever mentioned cubicle operator until later years that I realize that’s what she was doing.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I am sure she didn’t yeah.  
MRS. WULK: Um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Secrecy was the whole thing.
MRS. WULK: Secrecy was the main thing.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah. Were you ever curious about what she did?
MRS. WULK: No.  I don’t think I was.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Until you got many years down the road.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.  Until after the bomb and everybody got curious about what was going on, you know.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Okay, so now you graduated from freshmen to sophomore and you made more friends than you probably thought you would but what do you recall as being a sophomore was like?
MRS. WULK: Wasn’t a whole lot different from being freshmen of course. Really the early years at Oak Ridge High School were so different from a normal school I think because everybody was new to Oak Ridge.  They didn’t have any former friends, no cousins around, no grandparents in the city, and it was just a time to make new friends and lasting relationships. I don’t think going from freshmen to sophomore to junior had a whole lot was a whole different.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you take the normal classes or did you like to take some different classes when you were sophomore?
MRS. WULK: I more or less took the normal classes.  I did take a lot of the Home Ec. classes because at that time it was just assumed that girls took the Home Ec. classes, boys took the shops. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did they offer typing in those days?
MRS. WULK: Oh yes, typing and shorthand.  I did not take shorthand.  I did take typing.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you find later on that that typing was something you were glad you took?
MRS. WULK: Oh yes, and I guess it was my senior year I was in the band.  I don’t know why I didn’t get in the band sooner than that but I enjoyed being in the band.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What instrument did you play? 
MRS. WULK: Saxophone.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And why did you decide to play the saxophone?
MRS. WULK: I actually had started that in elementary school in Spring City and didn’t keep up with it a whole lot but then I needed the credits so I joined the band senior year.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now I don’t know whether it’s hard for a girl to play the saxophone or not but it seems to me that maybe it is.  Was it in those days?
MRS. WULK: I don’t think so.  I think there was another girl that was playing saxophone also.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Who was the band instructor?
MRS. WULK: Robert Scarborough.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you like music?  I mean is that do you think that’s the reason you started way back in your younger days?
MRS. WULK: I guess.  I enjoyed music.  Well, then Daddy would enjoy music.  They love to dance and all and so I always did too.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall them going to dances in Oak Ridge in their early days?
MRS. WULK: Oh yes.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember where they went?
MRS. WULK: I guess one of the rec halls or something. I know I remember them coming to Norris some to dances at the community building here at Norris especially. I think it was usually first part of the year what they used to call the President’s Ball.  It was FDR’s birthday or something.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What type of dancing did they do?
MRS. WULK: Just regular ballroom, you know, regular ballroom dancing.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	My understanding the tennis courts was a poplar place for dancing.
MRS. WULK: Oh yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you go to any dances on the tennis courts?
MRS. WULK: Oh I went to some of those on the tennis courts, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you were in high school did you date very much?
MRS. WULK: No I didn’t.  I didn’t join until a lot of the after school activities because Mother was working shift work.  Daddy was working straight days.  I usually had to go on home and get dinner ready for Daddy.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now when you mentioned your mother worked shift work what kind of shifts did she work. Do you recall?
MRS. WULK: What was it? 7 to 3, 3 to 11 and what was the other one, 11 to 7.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	11 to 7 midnights.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How did she get back and forth from the home by 12. Do you remember?
MRS. WULK: I don’t remember.  She was in a carpool or rode the bus, I don’t know.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What during the summer times, as you were still in high school do you recall going to the skating rinks or the bowling lanes or things?
MRS. WULK: Oh yeah went to the skating rink a lot down in Jefferson, down around Jefferson.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember what the skating rink look like?
MRS. WULK: It was just a big building just a big wooden building, had a good skating floor and I usually went skating on the weekends, not during the week too much.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you a good student while you were in school?
MRS. WULK: I’d say I was just average.  I didn’t excel.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So now you become a senior in high school and you were in the band when you were a senior.
MRS. WULK: Um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember some of the trips that the band took to football games?
MRS. WULK: Yes.  We went to several football games, different places. Then we went to a band competition in Johnson City and that was a nice experience.  We stayed overnight in the hotel.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What year were you a senior?
MRS. WULK: I graduated in ‘47 so within ‘46 and ‘47.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Let’s back up until 1945 in August when they dropped the bomb.  What do you remember about that?
MRS. WULK: Mother and I were in Indiana visiting her brother and I just remember it happening and all that.  I missed all the excitement in Oak Ridge.  I love the pictures of all the people that’s in the paper and everything.  Looking back I wish I had been in Oak Ridge at the time so I missed a lot of the excitement. Of course, it was exciting wherever you are, for something like that to happen.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Let’s move four years ahead to the gate opening in March were you Oak Ridge during that time?
MRS. WULK: Yes, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Tell me what you remember about that?
MRS. WULK: That was quite an experience too.  It was a big to-do to open the gates and I remember the parade.  I was right down there on Turnpike and I remember the movie stars going by in the convertibles and everything.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You remember who they were?
MRS. WULK: I believe Randolph Scott was one of them.  Was it Marie McDonald I think was one of the girls?
MR. HUNNICUTT:	The body McDonald.
MRS. WULK: Yeah and yeah that was a big day.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	We talk about opening the gates.  The City of Oak Ridge was a gated community until then.
MRS. WULK: Um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what do you remember going about going in and out of the city, as far as passes are concerned?
MRS. WULK: Oh you didn’t dare going out without your -- you didn’t get out without your badge and you didn’t get back in without one.  It was just one of those things that you just knew you have with you every time you -- any place you went you had your badge with you.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So it wasn’t too much trouble getting out, it was getting back in.
MRS. WULK: The getting back in.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So how do you remember that experience?
MRS. WULK: It just seemed to be the normal thing to do.  I mean it wasn’t, I don’t remember thinking a whole lot about it.  It was just something that was routine.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did the guards ever search your car when you were coming in?
MRS. WULK: I don’t think so.  I don’t remember. No.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Probably did all the random search by then.
MRS. WULK: Probably, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about relatives when they visited?  Do you remember what happened?
MRS. WULK: Well, it had to be planned.  You didn’t have any drop-ins and you had to get passes for them.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So the mother-in-law just couldn’t drop in.
MRS. WULK: No.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	This is why I presume you had to go to some place to meet them to bring them in.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall mail deliveries to the house?
MRS. WULK: Yes. Norris.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about salesman like (inaudible) or…
MRS. WULK: I don’t remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Or anybody like that.
MRS. WULK: I don’t remember any of those no.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah.  Did you ever collect Coke bottles for deposit or lightening bugs for sale in summer times?
MRS. WULK: I remember when my children were little, we caught lightening bugs.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What did you do with them in those days?  I remember but I don’t remember what we did with them.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.  Well, at the time my children were little.  We were doing that. We lived here in Norris by then. We had a freezer and so we just come in and get them out of the net, put them in a jar and put them in the freezer until there was time to take them to be sold.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember how much they sold for?
MRS. WULK: Oh, no I don’t.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I don’t either.
MRS. WULK: I don’t.  They were some $100 or something I think but I don’t know how much.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You mentioned about everywhere you went in the early days there was mud.  Do you recall whether there was paved streets or most of it dirt or do you remember anything about that?
MRS. WULK: I can’t remember back when they started paving the streets.  I know there weren’t sidewalks or anything. Of course, especially when we lived in East Village on Atlantic Avenue, you get on the bus and go to school and you know what houses you saw. Then when you come home on the bus that afternoon there would be more houses on the street.  They were just going up that fast and but I can’t remember exactly what the streets were.  There were probably at first it was gravel, gravel and mud.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I have been told that a kid could go to school the morning come home get lost because there would be so many houses, is that true?
MRS. WULK: Right.  It could be confusing, it really was.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now how did you know which bus to get on?  I mean did the bus have a number or mark or something like that?
MRS. WULK: I guess they did.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you have to walk very far to catch the bus from your home?
MRS. WULK: No.  I can’t remember what street it would have come up to get close to where I was but no. It was just a couple a door or two away from the house that I had to catch the bus. 
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now after school you had to still walk down the hill to the square and catch the bus on Tennessee there, I guess, where they let you off.
MRS. WULK: Yeah, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And still had to go up and down the muddy bank.
MRS. WULK: Yes.  I remember one day having to pull my shoe out of mud.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Now they built some steps out of wood in the beginning.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you still going to the high school when that happened?
MRS. WULK: Yes, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I guess everybody was real happy on that occasion.
MRS. WULK: That helped, it really did.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you attend any before you were in the band, did you attend any football games at Blankenship Field?
MRS. WULK: Oh yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you remember how Blankenship Field was compared to today. Do you remember?
MRS. WULK: I haven’t been up there in years.  I couldn’t tell you what it looks like today but I can remember of course. The band would meet up in the school and then we walk down the steps to the field.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were those concrete steps going down to the field like they are now do you remember?
MRS. WULK: I think they were wooden back then.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah and if I remember right the band used to have kind of unique uniforms, seem like didn’t they have little lights on top of their hats, was that during your time of school?
MRS. WULK: I don’t remember that.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I think that was later on.
MRS. WULK: I don’t think we did.  That must have been later.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And when the band performed on the field, do you remember how many numbers they played or was it very hard to learn all the movements and positions?
MRS. WULK: We had several practices in order to get our formations down you know and Watson was explaining, we went through it few times.  It didn’t seem we had any problems during our formations.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was there a lot of kids in the band?
MRS. WULK: I can’t remember how many there were but it was pretty good size band for the time.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So when you graduated from high school what happened after that?
MRS. WULK: I got married.  Yeah I got married right out of high school. My husband, Bill, he had been in the Navy and he was from Citronelle, Alabama, which is little town north of Mobile. We went there for a while then we came back to Oak Ridge in November I guess.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How did you meet your husband?
MRS. WULK: Now that’s a long story.  His mother and my mother were cousins by adoption.  Mother’s uncle had adopted his mother when they were all in Athens, Alabama, and so that his mother and my mother grew up as cousins. Then the uncle had moved to (inaudible) south Alabama and so there were years that they did not see other or didn’t remain very close. Mother had a brother and sister that lived close to Mobile and in ‘46 she had gone down to visit her brother and sister and they had relocated with this cousin, adopted cousin and they took Mother over to meet her and get acquainted again. Bill happen to be home on the leave from the Navy so Mother met him first.  I always said Mother picked him out for me and she just suggested that I write to him since he was still in the service and everything so we wrote to each other for about nine months before we met.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So what was the date like in those days, were did you go?
MRS. WULK: Didn’t go very far because I didn’t date much in high school and then after I started writing to him I didn’t date at all. So like I said I got married right out of high school and we were married for 48 and a half years.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So you lived at Oak Ridge for a short period of time then came back.  Where did you move to?
MRS. WULK: We moved down to his hometown and it wasn’t what we wanted so we came back to Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What year was that?
MRS. WULK: That was November of ‘47.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what was the first home?
MRS. WULK: Well, we lived with Mother and Daddy for a while and Bill got a job in Oak Ridge and then we got an apartment on Hillside and that was our first home.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What type of work did he do?
MRS. WULK: He was a mill (inaudible) and his first job was with Roane Anderson and I am not sure just what all was involved and then he left Roane Anderson. He went to Morgan (inaudible), I can’t remember the name of the company right off, it would come to me in a minute and then he was called back to Oak Ridge in October of ‘50, he came back to Oak Ridge so we moved back.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall the address on Hillside?
MRS. WULK: Is it 188 Hillside I think?
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What type of house would that be?
MRS. WULK: It was a big long apartment building, downstairs apartments and upstairs apartments.  I think there was what 10 or 12 apartments in the building?
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Is that a one or two bedroom apartment?
MRS. WULK: It was a one bedroom.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were those fairly small apartments or---?
MRS. WULK: Well, yeah it was small um huh.  It was living room and dining room was all one long room and a small kitchen, bedroom and bath.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So how long did you guys live there?
MRS. WULK: I can’t really remember how long, it was couple of years I guess and.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	From there where did you go to?
MRS. WULK: Watt Circle into a two bedroom apartment and we were there until we moved to Norris.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Let me back up and ask you about your work.  Did you work during the summer time when you were going to high school?
MRS. WULK: No I didn’t.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you work after high school or the time you all lived in Oak Ridge I guess?
MRS. WULK: Yes.  I worked for a while when we came back to Oak Ridge.  I worked at one of the theaters and then I went to work with Roane Anderson also.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Which theater was it that you worked in?
MRS. WULK: One over (inaudible) drug store.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Oh the Ridge Theatre.
MRS. WULK: Yeah, the Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What was your job there?
MRS. WULK: Tickets, sold tickets.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You sat in the ticket booth first. 
MRS. WULK: Yes. Sold tickets, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember how much the movie cost in those days?
MRS. WULK: Oh I wish I did. A lot less than it is now.  
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah.  How long did your mother work, do you remember?
MRS. WULK: Mother worked off and on.  I don’t remember when she left Y12.  I guess that was after the bomb was dropped and everything.  I don’t really remember but then she worked at one of the fabric stores there in Jackson Square and.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So she pretty much was a working mom the whole time.
MRS. WULK: Pretty much so, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And where did the family live?  Did they live in Oak Ridge all their lives after that?
MRS. WULK: No, Mother and Daddy moved to Norris in 1950 then Bill and I followed up here also.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Talking about Norris little bit how was Norris in 1950?  What do you remember it was like?
MRS. WULK: Very small and quiet and pretty much, what it is right now.  Norris has not changed a whole lot, not the original part of Norris anyway.  We still only have the grocery store and post office.  We have a bank and it’s very convenient so but I wasn’t too happy when we first moved to Norris because I have been in Oak Ridge for so long but now I wouldn’t consider living anywhere else.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Back when you were living in Oak Ridge did the family have a telephone?
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were you on a party line?
MRS. WULK: Seems like it was for a while or maybe the party line was in Spring City.  I don’t think it was party line in Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you ever go down and visit the American Museum of Atomic Energy in Jefferson?
MRS. WULK: In Jefferson.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Down in Jefferson Circle.
MRS. WULK: No, I don’t think so.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Jefferson Avenue, it’s close to where the skating rink was right across the street.
MRS. WULK: I don’t think I did, no.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So see where I am at here.  Do you feel like your parents were strict with you and your brother when you were growing up?
MRS. WULK: Not that overly strict I don’t think.  We had rules, of course, you know they had to know where we were and what everything was but I don’t think they were overly strict.  I did a lot of babysitting when I was in high school and but I think they were just normal.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember how much you made babysitting?
MRS. WULK: It was probably maybe 25 cents an hour if that much.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	That’s where you made your first million dollars.  I want to mention a few places in Oak Ridge and tell me whether you visited them. If you did, what do you remember about them? The Oak Terrace Ballroom, remember where that was?
MRS. WULK: I am trying to remember.  I know the name but I can’t picture right off.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	We had the Oak Terrace Restaurant and bowling center was upstairs by the Grove Theatre.
MRS. WULK: No, I don’t think I was there very much.  I think we had one of our first high school reunions we had there and that would have been in ‘57.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did they have a junior-senior prom when you were going to high school?
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You remember where they had that.
MRS. WULK: In the gymnasium in the high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah that’s logical.  How about the Snow White Drive-In, do you remember that?
MRS. WULK: Oh yes, yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you remember about the Snow White Drive-In?
MRS. WULK: That was the place to be or that was the place to be seen and if you were lucky enough to have a friend that had a car you went to the Snow White.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was that a place where you could drive around the building in the car?
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you recall, did they have curb service at the Snow White do you remember?
MRS. WULK: I don’t remember.  I don’t think so.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you ever eat food at Snow White or just hang out?
MRS. WULK: I probably ate there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How about the Skyway Drive-In do you remember that?
MRS. WULK: Where was it?
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Outdoor theatre over there probably where you would probably remember, well, it’s where Outback is now, steak house but the Holiday Inn built there you know.
MRS. WULK: Oh yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You could get a room on that side and sat on the balcony watch the movie.
MRS. WULK: I remember going to the one that was just outside of Elza Gate.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	The Elza Drive-In.
MRS. WULK: Um huh.  I think that was the one I went to more than the other place.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	That was kind of unique because when the train going past you couldn’t hear a thing.
MRS. WULK: Couldn’t hear the thing.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you ever have reason to go to the Oak Ridge Hospital and use the hospital facilities or the doctors in Oak Ridge that you remember?
MRS. WULK: I don’t think I ever did when we were in high school or anything. Of course, I did later.  I remember my brother was in the hospital one time.  He was planning to go to the senior prom and he had to cancel his date to that. But until I had my children at the Oak Ridge Hospital, I don’t remember being there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What about the dental facilities?  Did you ever have a need to use that?
MRS. WULK: I don’t know why I didn’t.  I remember our mother would take me back to Rockwood to a dentist.  I guess it was the one that we had when we lived in Rockwood and so we didn’t go to any dental places in Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Were your parents involved in any clubs, organizations other than dancing did you recall?
MRS. WULK: They were very involved in the church.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Which church was that?
MRS. WULK: First Baptist Church and they first met in the Oak Ridge High School auditorium.  It was where they first met and I don’t remember when they build the Baptist Church.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I think it was ‘52 but I may be wrong.
MRS. WULK: Something like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And the location it is now.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah.  Do you feel like that your education that you had in Oak Ridge was good, above par or how would you rate it?
MRS. WULK: I’d say it was little bit above par because the officials really did go out and get the best teachers to come in there. I remember Margaret Morris said she had no idea where she was going when they hired her and she had just I think had just gotten her master’s. We had wonderful teachers and looking back and then getting better acquainted with them after high school to realize that some of them were only about 8 or 10 years older than high school seniors.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	You mentioned to me earlier before the interview that your class, graduating class usually tries to get together and how the each class member will call.  Tell me a little about that.
MRS. WULK: Well, when you first went to Oak Ridge High School for start there was a just a good mixture of students.  There were not a lot of distinctions between freshmen, sophomore and seniors and so it just became one big group and we remained that way all through high school. Then afterwards when so many of them started dispersing and going other places and came back for our reunions, we try to have the reunions every five years.  First one was for ten years.  In the later years the reunions were not just a class of ‘47 or whatever.  It was the class of the early ‘40’s.  We called it the fabulous ‘40’s so still that one mixture of not really distinction between freshmen and seniors. Then by working on the committee so much a lot of times when someone come back in to visit they would call me and get information on different ones and if they were in town long enough I would get enough to call everybody local that I could find, local meaning Knoxville or Norris City or whatever, and I have had as many as 65 or 70 here at my house and impromptu reunion type thing. I’ve always enjoyed that they would call me and say have you heard from so and so or something.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	That’s very good.  I think that needs to be continued as long as you can.
MRS. WULK: I think so too.  It’s been a while since I’ve had one but if anybody call and wants to get together I am ready.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So how many children do you have?
MRS. WULK: I have three, two boys and a daughter.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And their names are?
MRS. WULK: David is my first born and he lives in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and he has two children.  Robert, my second son, lives here in Norris and he has one son and my daughter Laquesha, lives in Midway, not Midway, what am I thinking, Marlow, 18 miles from here.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you go back and visit Oak Ridge visit the stores or various places in Oak Ridge?
MRS. WULK: Not as much as I used to especially since Wal-Mart opened up right out here at the intersection but I still go to Oak Ridge probably once a month.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Have you seen the city change? Can you tell a difference in the city over the years?
MRS. WULK: I hate to say the way they all has gone down, I just can’t understand why that has and something done with that and I don’t know to me it seems that in a way it has fallen down. In other ways it seems to be picking up again but I guess I remember it more as hay day when there were so many people there.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Your children were born where?
MRS. WULK: In Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And what were the years they were born in?
MRS. WULK: ‘50, ‘52 and ‘57.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you feel like the Oak Ridge Hospital gave you good service during those times?
MRS. WULK: Oh yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember when you were living in Oak Ridge as a young person?  Do you remember doctors making house calls?  Did you ever remember that coming to the house?
MRS. WULK: I don’t remember that in Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah.  They did but you may have not needed one.
MRS. WULK: No.  Evidentially we never needed one. I don’t recall it no.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did your father retire from Roane Anderson or tell me a little bit more about his work history?
MRS. WULK: No.  Let’s see what year it was, Mother and Daddy moved to Norris in 1950 and I guess it was probably ’55, ‘56 they decided to go to Arkansas.  They left this part of the country and went to and operated or bought a fishing camp on one of the lakes in Arkansas and so they really didn’t retire.  Either one of them retired from Oak Ridge.  They just left, yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	So when your family moved to Norris and you were raising your children where did you go to do your grocery shopping in those days?
MRS. WULK: Mostly it was right here in Norris at our grocery store here. Maybe you know once two weeks I go to Clinton to the White Store I think it was but…
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I remember the White Store has been a clean cut grocery store that sold good meat products.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you ever go back to Oak Ridge to do other shopping when you lived here in the early days?
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Where were some of the places you remember you shopped?
MRS. WULK: Well, it would have been Penney’s and Sears and some of the other stores that were in Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Down in the mall that you are referring that we don’t have anymore.
MRS. WULK: Yeah, that you don’t have now.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What do you think is the most amazing thing you ever seen in your life?
MRS. WULK:  Oh gosh, I guess looking back it would be the building up of Oak Ridge and but things have changed so electronics and everything so.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	It’s kind of pinpoint.
MRS. WULK: It’s kind of hard to pinpoint anything.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	I’ve had answers from women from childbirth and man going to the moon and no answer at all.  It’s just amazing the things that’s happened in this world.
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	In our lifetimes it’s hard to pinpoint just one thing.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Can you think of anything else that we have not talked about that you would like to talk about?
MRS. WULK: No, I don’t think so.  I think we covered a lot of things that I haven’t even thought about for a long time.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Well, that’s the purpose of an oral history, interviews to bring those things out and when you were living in Oak Ridge before you moved what did you like best about Oak Ridge?
MRS. WULK: I still had a lot of close friends and I was just a homebody then too.  I wasn’t working after I had my two little boys in Oak Ridge.  I didn’t work so I was pretty much just a homemaker and I guess it was just home, you know and I kind of hated to leave it at first but we left because living in an apartment with two little boys, it was by the time they were selling the houses in Oak Ridge and if you didn’t live in a (inaudible) it was kind of hard to try to buy one because they went first to the people that were living and Mother and Daddy had already moved to Norris so we decided to move to Norris too.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	When you moved to Norris was it in this home that you are in now?
MRS. WULK: No.  It was in a different house here in Norris.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And you moved in this house when?
MRS. WULK: We moved in this house in I think it was probably ‘62 or ‘63.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And was this house built during the Norris town project?
MRS. WULK: Yes and we’ve added on to it and did a little remodeling and different things and the interior.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	If you had to change anything in Oak Ridge other than the mall what do you think might be something you would want to change that would make the city better?
MRS. WULK: Oh my goodness, I don’t know, hadn’t even thought about that.  I really don’t know.  I am sure there are lot of things that could be changed.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Oh you mentioned to me earlier about you work for Roane Anderson, tell me what you did for them?
MRS. WULK: I was working in the Record Retirement Division.  It was one of the warehouses down close to Elza Gate.  I don’t remember exactly where and it was where all the work orders were filed, things that was taking place in the houses or the businesses or whatever and if there was any problem came up on a former order and they needed to cut a copy of it then that’s where they came was to the Record Retirement area and we would find the original work order.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	How did you get that job?
MRS. WULK: I don’t really remember.  I guess I applied for a job with Roane Anderson and that’s where I went.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was that at the time your father was working with Roane Anderson?
MRS. WULK: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Do you remember what your weekly take home pay might have been?
MRS. WULK: Yeah I don’t but I probably should but I don’t.  I am sure it was in line with other things of the time.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	What age would you have been at that time?
MRS. WULK: Probably 19.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Was there a lot of women that worked in the office at that time?
MRS. WULK: I think there were four of us in that particular office.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Pretty much the same age group or---.
MRS. WULK: There was couple that was probably ten years older or something.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Did you ride the bus to work?
MRS. WULK: Rode the bus, um huh.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Yeah, most everybody rode the bus.
MRS. WULK: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	Well, Francis it’s been my pleasure to interview you and I am sure that your interview would be a valuable asset to the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History.
MRS. WULK: Well, I hope so.
MR. HUNNICUTT:	And thank you again for letting us come into your home.
MRS. WULK: You’re welcome.  I’ve enjoyed it.
[End of Interview]