Casto, William R.

              ORAL HISTORY OF WILLIAM R. CASTO

Interviewed by Fred Heddleson

August, 2002

 
[Editor’s note: In this transcript, bracketed text generally represents words lost in the audio recording due to tape recorder malfunction. The supplied information was obtained largely through consultation with Bill Casto in 2010.]
Mr. Heddleson: Bill, when did you come to Oak Ridge?
Mr. Casto: In 1948.
Mr. Heddleson: 1948. Did they still have the mud then?
Mr. Casto: Oh, the mud was deep, yes. There were very few paved roads out in the residential part of town.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, now, when did they begin to get the roads? When did the mud sort of begin to no longer exist?
Mr. Casto: Gee, it must have been my second time to come through Oak Ridge. I was here a year the first time.
Mr. Heddleson: Oh, a year, in ’48?
Mr. Casto: Yeah, well, no, let’s see, ’48’s when I came back. But ’44 was when I came to Oak Ridge first.
Mr. Heddleson: Oh, you came in ’44 first, then.
Mr. Casto: Yes.
Mr. Heddleson: And how long were you here?
Mr. Casto: About a year.
Mr. Heddleson: About a year. Then, of course, I’m sure there was plenty of mud then.
Mr. Casto: Yes. That’s right. That’s what I was talking about when you asked me when we talked before.
Mr. Heddleson: I see, and then when you came back then, in ’48 – 
Mr. Casto: Yes, it was much – it was a regular city almost by that time.
Mr. Heddleson: Oh, they’d got pretty well over the mud era.
Mr. Casto: Yeah, right.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, then, you came before the war ended.
Mr. Casto: Yes, oh yes, I was here when the war ended.
Mr. Heddleson: Where did you live when you came in?
Mr. Casto: You mean the very first time?
Mr. Heddleson: Yeah, the first – I think probably we’d be more interested in the first time than the second.
Mr. Casto: Yes, I do too.
Mr. Heddleson: So unless I ask, everything will be related to your first visit.
Mr. Casto: Yeah, okay.
Mr. Heddleson: Well then, when you came in, how did you come in, by car or – 
Mr. Casto: No, there were three of us from West Vaco Company in South Charleston, West Virginia, and we were [chemical engineers and] superintendents of [the] thermal diffusion process, and West Vaco, at that time, was shutting down [some of its operations] that [were not war] work, and so we were [transferred to Oak Ridge]. And this man [came]. Of course, he came down by rail to the station in Knoxville.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, did you have a car at that time?
Mr. Casto: No, I had – yes, I owned a car, but I didn’t bring it.
Mr. Heddleson: Did you bring it at all during that first year?
Mr. Casto: Yes.
Mr. Heddleson: You must have gone back and got it.
Mr. Casto: Yes.
Mr. Heddleson: Now this company that you left, what sort of a company was it? What did they do?
Mr. Casto: Oh, their biggest project was paper, pulp. But we made various [chlorine products] to be piped from our plant, right next door to Carbide, and so our [product was] actually chlorine products.
Mr. Heddleson: And apparently that was not needed in the war effort then.
Mr. Casto: It was, but they were making it in other products.
Mr. Heddleson: When you came to Knoxville, then, you came in by rail, and you said something about a place in Knoxville, employment office or what?
Mr. Casto: No, that was in Oak Ridge. The government [had it].
Mr. Heddleson: When you arrived, they were waiting for you.
Mr. Casto: Yeah.
Mr. Heddleson: And then they drove you over to Oak Ridge to, I guess, the employment office.
Mr. Casto: Yes, that’s right.
Mr. Heddleson: Now, did the three of you go to work at the same place in Oak Ridge?
Mr. Casto: Yes.
Mr. Heddleson: And where was that?
Mr. Casto: At the S-50 area, thermal diffusion process.
Mr. Heddleson: Well now, was that [in the K-25] area?
Mr. Casto: It was [along, right] next to the river, [by the Steam Plant].
Mr. Heddleson: Well, I remember the Steam [Plant]. So, all three of you, then, went to the same place.
Mr. Casto: Yes, yes.
Mr. Heddleson: And [do you] remember their names?
Mr. Casto: No, I don’t, it was so long ago, I don’t remember names.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, I can understand that. I sort of wondered if they were, if they stayed after you did, or, you know, like you did?
Mr. Casto: No, I guess, [I guess they were], they stayed on [a year] or two, sort of shut the place down, and put it in moth balls.
Mr. Heddleson: Now, I’ll get back to work later, but where did you live then, when you came into Oak Ridge?
Mr. Casto: Dormitory.
Mr. Heddleson: They put you in a dormitory. Now, I was in a dormitory for about one month when I came, and where was this dormitory?
Mr. Casto: I don’t remember exactly. It was along somewhere along the Turnpike.
Mr. Heddleson: On the Turnpike. Near where the downtown area is now?
Mr. Casto: No, closer to the Bruner, what’s now [the Bruner area].
Mr. Heddleson: Oh, I didn’t know they had the buildings out that far. I thought that all of the dormitories were closer in to the Downtown area.
Mr. Casto: Fact is, that’s where [I ate my meals].
Mr. Heddleson: Where the store is now?
Mr. Casto: Yes.
Mr. Heddleson: And that was a cafeteria?
Mr. Casto: Yeah.
Mr. Heddleson: Then you would have breakfast there.
Mr. Casto: Yeah.
Mr. Heddleson: And then, did you have to buy breakfast?
Mr. Casto: Yes.
Mr. Heddleson: What did it cost, a quarter?
Mr. Casto: I don’t remember. It was practically nothing, though.
Mr. Heddleson: Yeah, and now then, at that particular time, did you board a bus or something to go to work?
Mr. Casto: Yes, that’s right.
Mr. Heddleson: And this bus, was it like a school bus?
Mr. Casto: No, it was one of these trailers, pulled by a tractor, a tractor truck, that is. And it had a nice [big trailer].
Mr. Heddleson: It was a great big trailer, then. What is – seats along the side, or seats – 
Mr. Casto: Yeah, right, seats just like in a bus, but it was in a trailer.
Mr. Heddleson: But were the seats like the bus, they were crossways or – 
Mr. Casto: They were – you were facing forward in the seats.
Mr. Heddleson: All the seats faced forward.
Mr. Casto: Yes.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, that’s interesting. And then a big stove to heat it.
Mr. Casto: Yeah, and we needed it too, ��cause it was cold that winter. It snowed about the 12th of December.
Mr. Heddleson: Did you have much snow?
Mr. Casto: No, no, just a cold snow and [sleet].
Mr. Heddleson: Now then, when you got to work, the process you talk about, I’m not too familiar with it, what were they trying to do with this process?
Mr. Casto: Separate [uranium]-235 from 238 [by gaseous diffusion].
Mr. Heddleson: Sort of preparing the material for the K-25 plant.
Mr. Casto: Its initial – it was [slightly enriched with U-235].
Mr. Heddleson: By that time, hadn’t they got K-25 pretty well working?
Mr. Casto: Oh, yes, definitely.
Mr. Heddleson: And then K-25 was actually producing material.
Mr. Casto: [They had begun] work.
Mr. Heddleson: Now, did you know what was going on?
Mr. Casto: Yes, but they didn’t tell me [anything].
Mr. Heddleson: [Did you have] any idea what the government was trying to do.
Mr. Casto: Yes, I was sure what they were doing.
Mr. Heddleson: [You knew], then, that it was eventually to make bombs.
Mr. Casto: Yes, yes. That was from my reading of science fiction, though.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, that’s interesting. I’ve heard that no one got really told what they were doing.
Mr. Casto: We didn’t.
Mr. Heddleson: So that so many people were really surprised when the news came out that the material had been used in a bomb. Well that’s interesting. Now then, as that work was winding down, and I guess the war was over, and it looked like they were not gonna continue to, [I guess], right? That they – it looked like they were not going to continue with the work at K-25?
Mr. Casto: Well, I don’t know about K-25, but they definitely weren’t [going to continue the S-50 operation].
Mr. Heddleson: Then, did you go back to the other company where you had worked?
Mr. Casto: No, my wife and I [went back to West Virginia].
Mr. Heddleson: You mention your wife. You were not married when you came in, were you?
Mr. Casto: Yes, I was.
Mr. Heddleson: Oh, you were married when you came in, and then your wife came with you?
Mr. Casto: No, couldn’t until I got an “A” house.
Mr. Heddleson: Oh, you finally ended up with an “A” house.
Mr. Casto: Yeah, it was a nice house.
Mr. Heddleson: And then you could bring your wife in. Oh, well you were starting off pretty good. Well now, when did you graduate from college?
Mr. Casto: 1940.
Mr. Heddleson: Well then, you were about a four year worker before you came here then.
Mr. Casto: About that, because when I came here in about [1944] –  yeah, about – that’s about right.
Mr. Heddleson: So you had worked from ’40 to ’44.
Mr. Casto: Yeah.
Mr. Heddleson: And then when did you [get married], after college or –
Mr. Casto: No, it was, let’s see, I can’t think of it.
Mr. Heddleson: It’s not important. Then the baby was your son Bill.
Mr. Casto: No, our daughter Kathy.
Mr. Heddleson: Kathy. Oh, Kathy’s older. Okay, Kathy’s older than your son Bill. Oh, I see, okay. So then Kathy was here with you at that time.
Mr. Casto: When we got the “D” house, yes. “A” house, excuse me.
Mr. Heddleson: Was there a problem at the time? I know there were a lot of problems with food and so forth and so on. Did having the baby here have any, cause any extra problems.
Mr. Casto: No, no, not at all. We were [fine].
Mr. Heddleson: Then you went – 
Mr. Casto: It was in Jackson Square, not in Townsite, that the grocery [store was].
Mr. Heddleson: Jackson Square, well that was a pretty good walk then.
Mr. Casto: About half a mile. I was on Tucker Road.
Mr. Heddleson: Now then, when you finally went to work somewhere else, between the time you left here and came back, what kind of work was that?
Mr. Casto: I was a factory chemist in an [American] Window Glass plant in [Arnold], Pennsylvania.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, then, why did you come back to Oak Ridge?
Mr. Casto: Well, I guess it’s because [I was more interested in nuclear science].
Mr. Heddleson: Well, then, what made you think of Oak Ridge?
Mr. Casto: I had a friend here, Dean Holzgraf.
Mr. Heddleson: [So you knew then] that they were rehiring. I guess a lot of people were surprised that they didn’t just plain close up everything when the war was over.
Mr. Casto: Yes, yes, but the X-10 area [continued its research].
Mr. Heddleson: Well, let’s talk a little bit now about the town at that time, during the first time you were here.
Mr. Casto: When I was in a dormitory, you mean.
Mr. Heddleson: Yeah. You had breakfast at the cafeteria, and I presume you had lunch at work.
Mr. Casto: Yes, that’s right.
Mr. Heddleson: Did you carry a lunch?
Mr. Casto: No, no way to prepare it.
Mr. Heddleson: And then you’d have your dinner at the cafeteria.
Mr. Casto: Yes.
Mr. Heddleson: And how long were you here before your wife came in?
Mr. Casto: It was four to six months, I can’t remember exactly.
Mr. Heddleson: So it wasn’t right away.
Mr. Casto: No.
Mr. Heddleson: And, now then when your wife came in, I presume then you started having your breakfast and dinner.
Mr. Casto: Oh, yes.
Mr. Heddleson: Now, do you know that she had any problems obtaining food?
Mr. Casto: No, none at all. Except, well, except what everybody had, and meat too.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, what about beer or whiskey?
Mr. Casto: Well, you had to bring your whiskey in, of course.
Mr. Heddleson:  What?
Mr. Casto: Had to sneak the [liquor in].
Mr. Heddleson: So, in other words, nothing was sold in Oak Ridge, then.
Mr. Casto: But there was beer.
Mr. Heddleson: Beer. You could buy beer.
Mr. Casto: Yeah.
Mr. Heddleson: Now, was it rationed?
Mr. Casto: No.
Mr. Heddleson: You could buy as much as you wanted.
Mr. Casto: As I remember, yes.
Mr. Heddleson: Do you remember if there was any problems with alcoholism? I don’t mean you, but I mean generally.
Mr. Casto: No.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, one of the things, the reason I ask that question, during the war there were a number of guys who went to jobs, like, overseas, where they had plenty to drink, and mostly alcoholics attempted to get one of these jobs, where they weren’t bothered too much and they could drink as they pleased. So you don’t remember any of that, then?
Mr. Casto: No, not much they could do to you.
Mr. Heddleson: If you brought in liquor, you say you had to hide it from the guards. How did you do that?
Mr. Casto: Oh, there were various ways, cover it up [in the trunk].
Mr. Heddleson: Well, now, I think we need to cover a little bit about your second visit. When you came in the second time, where did you go to work?
Mr. Casto: At [X-10].
Mr. Heddleson: That’s when you started at Oak Ridge National Lab. And what did you work on there?
Mr. Casto: The X-10 [Research Reactor Division].
Mr. Heddleson: And what was your responsibility there?
Mr. Casto: Well, first, I was a trainee, and then I was a [shift supervisor].
Mr. Heddleson: Supervisor?
Mr. Casto: For the reactor.
Mr. Heddleson: Okay, not the whole plant.
Mr. Casto: No, just the reactor.
Mr. Heddleson: I see, okay, and then eventually you went into the Nuclear Safety Information Center, as I remember.
Mr. Casto: Yes, that was [years later].
Mr. Heddleson: [Do you remember] about when that was?
Mr. Casto: Let’s see, [about 1970].
Mr. Heddleson: Of course, now, I was working at the Nuclear Safety Information Center then. [What] did you do at the Nuclear Safety Information Center?
Mr. Casto: Let’s see, mostly [I was the editor of the Operations section of the journal Nuclear Safety].
Mr. Heddleson: [Speak a little] louder.
Mr. Casto: Oh, yeah, the power plant, nuclear power plant operations [section] mainly [analyzed problems] that occurred [and] organized them.
Mr. Heddleson: This mostly was relative to the publication of the journal.
Mr. Casto: Yes, that’s right.
Mr. Heddleson: Okay. Well, I think that pretty well covers your periods during those early years, and as a kind of conclusion here, do you have any comments, or will you make comments on, let’s say, Oak Ridge in the later years, anything you might want to mention about living in Oak Ridge now.
Mr. Casto: Well, something very important I have to say about that. [I was] offered a job up in [Ohio at the Nash Reactor], at Westinghouse, to [operate it for a] two percent increase [but I didn’t take it], of course, and I’ve been here ever since. So Oak Ridge is a great place.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, any other comments?
Mr. Casto: No, that’s about it for me.
Mr. Heddleson: Well, Bill, we thank you for letting us interview you. And, now, do you understand that this will be transcribed from the tape?
Mr. Casto: Yes, right.
Mr. Heddleson: And then you will have an opportunity to look at that, read it and approve it.
Mr. Casto: Oh, I didn’t know that, but that sounds good to me.
Mr. Heddleson: Yeah, okay, well that’s it. Well, thank you very much and that concludes our interview.
Mr. Casto: Well that was fun, Fred.
[end of recording]