Vasquez, Katatra

              
ORAL HISTORY OF KATATRA VASQUEZ
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
February 12, 2018
 
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is February 12th, 2018 and I'm at my studio here in Oak Ridge with Katatra Vasquez.
MRS. VASQUEZ: You got it right. Katatra.
MR. MCDANIEL: Katatra Vasquez, or as Bill Wilcox used to call you ...
MRS. VASQUEZ: The cat lady.
MR. MCDANIEL: The cat lady.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Only he can call me that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. We'll make sure that nobody else calls you that. Now, Katatra, tell me what your position is because you work for DOE [Department of Energy] right now, don't you?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes I do. I am an environmental scientists for the Department of Energy and in that role I am the National Environmental Policy Act compliance officer for the Oak Ridge Reservation, in short NEPA. We like alphabet soup, NEPA is what we will call that. So the NEPA compliance officer and I also serve as the cultural resource and historic preservation coordinator. Can you say that three times fast?
MR. MCDANIEL: We'll get to all of that, but I wanted to start out with that to let people know kind of who you were and then we'll kind of get to that talk about that a little bit later.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Sure.
MR. MCDANIEL: As with everybody I start out these interviews, I like to know something about the person where they came from. So, let's start at the beginning. Where were you born and raised? Tell me something about your family.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Sure. I was born in Dayton, Ohio. Some people are not familiar with Dayton but if you think about the Wright brothers, the aviators, that was their birthplace. The Wright-Patterson Air Force Base and it is not too far from Cincinnati, Ohio.
MR. MCDANIEL: Dayton, Ohio, we have friends in, I mean we have family in Michigan, my wife does and Dayton, Ohio, is exactly halfway.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Is exactly halfway.
MR. MCDANIEL: To where we have to go in Michigan. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: So you're familiar, that's great. So born in Dayton, Ohio. However, I had the opportunity to spend a lot of summers in Suffolk, Virginia, with my grandparents. So it was a good healthy balance between city life and what we call rural country life in Suffolk, Virginia.
MR. MCDANIEL: Do you have brothers or sisters?
MRS. VASQUEZ: No, I'm the only child. So my mom and dad, both of them were social workers, however my dad also managed Parks and Recreation areas for the city of Dayton. So I guess you can say I'm a social workers' kid, only child.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Where are they from originally?
MRS. VASQUEZ: My mom is from Virginia and my dad is from Dayton, Ohio.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, all right. So you grew up in Dayton?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: I guess you graduated high school from there.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes, I graduated in 1996 from Chaminade Julienne Catholic High School.
MR. MCDANIEL: You're just a child, I'm sorry.
MRS. VASQUEZ: This I said an oral history. I don't know if I meet the age requirement but let's do this. 
MR. MCDANIEL: So did you have any idea what you wanted to do when you were in high school as far as a career goes?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Actually not really. I knew that I loved the environment and I loved nature and I got that from spending those many summers with my grandparents in Suffolk, Virginia. It was just pretty much in the summers, me, my family, my grandparents in nature. The rooster woke you up. There are a lots of trees and there's cotton farms, peanut farms. I just loved the area. I felt a sense of peace there and I love nature. So, I guess you would say that I wanted to protect the environment. I didn't know how, but I just wanted to do that. The answer is I wanted to protect the environment.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you decided to go to college and where did you go?
MRS. VASQUEZ: I went to Tuskegee University in Tuskegee, Alabama. To give you a little background, in Dayton, Ohio, my mom had me in many programs. I took advantage of a lot of opportunities that Dayton, Ohio, had to offer for minority students or just students in general. One of those was a Historically Black College tour that one of the members from our church led. Like I said, I wanted to help the environment and that time the only thing that was available, people said, well, if you want to help the environment you need to be some type of engineer. So, at that time Georgia Tech had a great engineering program and I thought Tuskegee had a great engineer program, which they do, which they do. When we went on this Historically Black College Universities tour I took one step off the bus at Tuskegee University and I felt at home there and I just knew I had to go to this school. My guidance counselor said, "Well Katatra, you need to apply to more than one school." Because I was just like Tuskegee is where I'm going to go, right? And so, for options I applied to Georgia Tech as well. Really didn't care if I got into Georgia Tech or not. But I was accepted and I was also accepted to Tuskegee University. To me it was a no brainer, I'm going to Tuskegee University. So when I got there the icing on the cake was I didn't necessarily have to be an engineer. They had a program, a newly established program for environmental science and environmental science natural resource management because I've always been a people person, social and outgoing. I really didn't see myself in the lab and that's what I had to do in environmental science but this particular program was more focused on compliance and full circle protecting the environment through that, environmental compliance. And so Tuskegee University. To be quite honest it was the best experience of my entire life to go to Tuskegee University, not only for the history of Booker T. Washington and of course George Washington Carver but just the experience and the education that I got and all those people that fed into me there at Tuskegee University. A wonderful, wonderful experience. I wouldn't trade it for the world and I'm glad I made that decision.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well good. So you got a degree in environmental science?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Environmental science natural resource management.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, all right. So what did you do when you graduated?
MRS. VASQUEZ: I'll go back just a little bit. In order to graduate from Tuskegee University, you had to do a summer internship. And so I started thinking about that sophomore year in college.
MR. MCDANIEL: Which is good.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Which is good, which is a good time. And at the time my mom was good friends with a friend of with Secretary, former Secretary Hazel O'Leary at the Department of Energy. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Now how was she good friends with Hazel O'Leary?
MRS. VASQUEZ: I know, right? Small town. My mom's friend was good friends with Hazel O'Leary and they talked about me and college, Tuskegee, my future. You know how moms and friends talk about, what your child is going to do and they're so proud of you and this, this, that and the other. And so at that point, my mom's friend and Hazel O'Leary, I guess, they were talking and I want to say my name came up. So my mom's friend said, "You know the Department of Energy has internships for students at historically black colleges and universities and she encouraged me to apply and I did and I did it. To answer the question I did three summer internships with the Department of Energy in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. I remember how I got here to Oak Ridge, Tennessee, through that internship, of course I applied and we all went, the participants in college we went to Washington D.C. at the Department of Energy headquarters. We were given the opportunity to select where we wanted to come for our internship experience in the DOE complex. A lot of them picked areas of the Department of Energy where they were close to big cities and we'll call it divine intervention or divine direction, I chose Oak Ridge. I remember when I told my friends and my family, they were like, “Oak Ridge, why would you choose that. Is that even on the map?” Hence Secret City. But that's how I got here. Did three internships with the department.
MR. MCDANIEL: So why did you choose Oak Ridge?
MRS. VASQUEZ: I really, really don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you know anything about Oak Ridge? 
MRS. VASQUEZ: I didn't know anything about Oak Ridge. I just knew that a lot of people wanted to stay in Washington D.C. and call it like I said, divine direction. I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, East Tennessee is probably a lot like Virginia so I mean you know had the nature and ...
MRS. VASQUEZ: I don't even think that. I didn't know anything, Keith, about Oak Ridge, Tennessee, like how beautiful East Tennessee was. I'd never visited East Tennessee.
MR. MCDANIEL: When you first came to Oak Ridge, you came that summer, the first summer.
MRS. VASQUEZ: The first summer, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: You did three summers here.
MRS. VASQUEZ: I did three summers here, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: The first summer, were you still in college or was this after?
MRS. VASQUEZ: I was still in college. It was the summer of my I guess sophomore year going into my junior year.
MR. MCDANIEL: So what was your first impression of Oak Ridge?
MRS. VASQUEZ: My first impression of Oak Ridge, I actually liked it. The people were really, really nice. I remember I was the only summer intern that came to the area during that time for the Department of Energy. I didn't have anywhere to stay, I didn't know anyone. But one lady, Miss Nettie Hudson, she took me in and she allowed me to stay at her house and I remember we had a cooler, I remember it was hot. But I went to Tuskegee so hot was relative, right? We had our water and our coolers in the car, had our lunches packed and we would go to work every day. 
MR. MCDANIEL: So she worked at the ...
MRS. VASQUEZ: She worked at the Department of Energy as well. The people were really, really great to me, I learned a lot.
MR. MCDANIEL: Who did you work with that first summer?
MRS. VASQUEZ: That first summer. I always worked in the assistant manager for Environmental Safety and Health. And so, in that I had the opportunity over those three summers to work at ETTP [East Tennessee Technology Park], The Oak Ridge National Laboratory and of course the Federal Building site doing environmental compliance work. I worked with folks like Peter Gross, Bob Poe, who was the assistant manager of Environmental Safety and Health at the time. Mark Belvin at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. They all were great in telling me about their experiences in Oak Ridge and also they were all very technically competent and I was able to shadow them and they all mentored me. I think I even worked with Martin McBride at one point. It was just a great experience and all of them shared their technical expertise with me, provided direction and I'm here today.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you spent three summers here and then I guess so your summer after your sophomore, junior and senior year. So your last summer here, what happened when you completed that internship? 
MRS. VASQUEZ: My last summer, it was time to enter into, I guess, the real world because I'm graduating from college then. In four years, I had the goal to get out of Tuskegee, in four years I didn't want to be a fifth year student. So nevertheless I did that. I had three job offers. One with the forest to be a National Park Service ranger, to work for the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Energy. I was thinking about those three opportunities.
MR. MCDANIEL: They are really different.
MRS. VASQUEZ: All different. 
MR. MCDANIEL: All different.
MRS. VASQUEZ: I was thinking about those three and I felt like I needed, once again, call it divine direction, I felt like I needed to come here to the Department of Energy in Oak Ridge. To be quite honest, Keith, it helped that at one point my now husband, I met him here as well.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you meet him during one of your summers?
MRS. VASQUEZ: One of my summer internships. So that kind of helped. I guess it's a secret but not really since we're doing an oral history ...
MR. MCDANIEL: That's okay, that's all right.
MRS. VASQUEZ: I met him and we fell in love and 12 years later we're married and have two awesome children. 
MR. MCDANIEL: What was he doing here? Was he working?
MRS. VASQUEZ: He was working. He was a student at the University of Tennessee and he was also an intern. One of those internships I think the last summer I was here I didn't have a driver's license. And Mr., I think I want to say Rothrock, I worked with him, he was one of the supervisors in Environmental Safety and Health and he says, "Katatra, I want to send you to these different areas but you need to have your driver's license so you can get in a government car." I didn't.
MR. MCDANIEL: Why did you not have your driver's license? 
MRS. VASQUEZ: I know, right? I kept failing the doggone driver's test. So I got my driver's license really late in life. 
MR. MCDANIEL: That's all right, that's quite all right. Some kids just choose not to get their driver's license until later which is odd. When I was 15, I had my permit the day I turned 15. Used to have your permit for a whole year before you got your driver's license. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: But in Dayton we didn't necessarily have to have, I mean, we had public transportation. All my friends had cars.
MR. MCDANIEL: So here you are in your early 20's working in Oak Ridge, you didn't have a driver's license and he said you really need to get one.
MRS. VASQUEZ: You really need to get one. However, my husband, my now husband, he worked in the same area and he was an intern so they assigned him to me to drive me around and we worked together on I think it was the Material Safety and Datasheet System in the Federal Building and the other satellite sites in the area. So here we go, that's how we met.
MR. MCDANIEL: There you go, that's how you met. Before they assigned him to you were you all an item?
MRS. VASQUEZ: No, not at all. In fact, to hear him tell it, we are completely opposite. So to hear him say, he looked at me, he says, “This girl is going to try to steal my job.” I didn't, I don't think. Maybe he was a little threatened but I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: You just stole his heart.
MRS. VASQUEZ: I just stole his heart. But it worked out in the end because 12 years we're here. 
MR. MCDANIEL: There you are, there are you. So they offered you a full time job with DOE.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes, they did.
MR. MCDANIEL: In Oak Ridge.
MRS. VASQUEZ: In Oak Ridge. In Oak Ridge in the Assistant Manager Environmental Safety and Health. At that time, since I was right out of college, I had a lot of different opportunities. I did not necessarily have a program at the time. Environmental Safety and Health, most of the professionals there had a program. 
MR. MCDANIEL: A specific area that they focused on.
MRS. VASQUEZ: A specific area, and I did not have one at the time and I remember I really, really wanted one. I really wanted a specific focus area.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, let's stop right there and before we continue on with that tell me specifically what that office does. What does environmental compliance mean?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Specifically for the Department of Energy in Oak Ridge, these are your subject matter experts in one of those specific areas, whether it's waste, water, air, NEPA, National Environmental Policy Act, cultural resources, environmental management systems. These are your subject matter experts and they ensure compliance with the environmental laws, agreement documents with the state or local agreement documents. These are your folks that throughout the DOE complex or specifically to Oak Ridge you call on to aid the department and working through and staying compliant with all these laws, all these environmental safety and health laws, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, I understand. And that's their responsibility.
MRS. VASQUEZ: That's their responsibility.
MR. MCDANIEL: Make sure everybody's above board, everybody is doing what they need to be doing. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Right, right.
MR. MCDANIEL: And I would imagine that those things change, those regulations and laws change. Maybe not as much as they did in the mid ‘80's but I would imagine that they change over time as well.
MRS. VASQUEZ: They change over time and it's our job to stay abreast, excuse me, of what those changes and those agreement documents may change with local and state regulators and we have to know what that is and we have to ensure that we stay compliant, keep everybody ...
MR. MCDANIEL: So you didn't have a program so they probably shared you over programs, didn't they?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Oh my goodness, I did a little bit of everything. Just a little bit of everything in the assistant manager for Environmental Safety and Health. Until I landed in one area which was in supporting specifically NEPA and historic preservation. I did that and then ...
MR. MCDANIEL: National Environmental Protection Act, which is the federal ...
MRS. VASQUEZ: Which is a law that was created to ensure that federal agencies take into account or consider the environmental effects for whatever their action is, their proposed actions. Whether that be demolishing a building or cutting the grass, they have to take into account the impacts on the environment.
MR. MCDANIEL: So how long did it take you to get that program?
MRS. VASQUEZ: How long did it take me to get that program. That's a good question, Keith. I worked in that area for at least four, five years. And then after that there was a retirement. No, before the retirement, Larry Kelly, I don't know if you are familiar with Larry Kelly, but Larry Kelly at one point was started as the assistant manager for Environmental Safety and Health. He was the first African-American manager for the Department of Energy Oak Ridge as well. He pulled me aside and he said, "Katatra, I've looked at what you've been doing here in our organization and I feel that it's time that we train you and get you knowledgeable so you can have a specific program, get all the training and so forth because I want you to be our Historic Preservation coordinator." I was scared. I wanted a program but I was nervous.
MR. MCDANIEL: So not only you were going to get your environmental program but he was going to spring on you this historic preservation stuff. Did you have any background or interest in that?
MRS. VASQUEZ: I'll tell you this. So NEPA is a great law because it touches on a variety of different environmental areas. So one would think NEPA, National Environmental Policy Act and Historic Preservation how do they relate. So in NEPA there is a part of the law that says that the federal agencies also must take into account what they do to historic properties in our heritage and culture properties, archeological as well in planning and impacts. So it's a related statute to NEPA. So I was familiar with Historic Preservation because they're almost kind of one and the same.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was a part of the bigger-
MRS. VASQUEZ: It was a part of the bigger picture. But he was specific and he said, “I want you to do Historic Preservation. I want you to serve as the Historic Preservation management coordinator.” There was a NEPA compliance officer at the time but he wanted to pull me out to do Historic Preservation specifically.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did they have anybody doing Historic Preservation?
MRS. VASQUEZ: They did. They did, but that person was about to retire and I guess I just fit. And it's funny I have to tell you this, when you talk about Historic Preservation and Oak Ridge specifically, all of my predecessors in the Historic Preservation management coordinators have typically been, and this is even in environmental compliance in general, have typically been Caucasian men. You throw me into the mix and I remember going into some of these consultation meetings and getting the look like where, what and how did this, so talk about being the first only indifferent in this area.
MR. MCDANIEL: As they say that was the white boys club, wasn't it?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Completely, completely. I remember going out in environmental walkthroughs on the reservation and one, I had the, you're just out of college and you don't know what you're talking about. And then I also am a woman and then I'm also African-American, can't hide any of that. I remember getting the, well, you're just happy to be here, aren't you?
MR. MCDANIEL: So you had to earn.
MRS. VASQUEZ: I had to earn every bit of it. Going on walkthroughs and someone showing me a snake, shouldn't you be scared? No, it's a snake. And what type of snake is it and is it native to this area, you know, that kind of thing. Or this is my job, I know it, I can do it well. So I had to prove myself a lot in that arena.
MR. MCDANIEL: So the last four, five, six, years, you, no, let's see, you came here in 2000 so it's been 17 years.
MRS. VASQUEZ: And I've been the Historic Preservation coordinator for 12 of those years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, so for 12 of those years.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes. And then more recently I became the NEPA compliance officer. 
MR. MCDANIEL: I see. So you became the Historic Preservation person first?
MRS. VASQUEZ: First, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's talk about some specifics about your job over the last 12 years or so. Let's talk a little bit about your early days. Were there any big issues that came up that you worked on back before you had your own program?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Big issues. I remember-
MR. MCDANIEL: In Oak Ridge.
MRS. VASQUEZ: In Oak Ridge. I remember working in coordination with the environmental justice in the Scarboro community as far as the mercury. I remember working on that as far as big issues. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Just so people will know, in the Scarboro community there was a lot of mercury released from Y-12 and it ended up in that community basically, right?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Correct, correct, correct. There were a lot of studies at the time to see what the effects were of that mercury contamination. 
MR. MCDANIEL: There was like a big lawsuit that may still be going on today but I know it was a long, long, long time lawsuit. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: It was a long, long, long time lawsuit and process, yes. So I did some work on that. Of course, when you talk about big projects, anything that the Department of Energy does is a big, especially in Oak Ridge which is a relatively small town where you have a lot of community involvement. At that time I remember the thought was anybody can take $50 and go through a lawsuit at us and stop our project whatever that project was. I would say that everything was a big project. But now as the Historic Preservation coordinator in my career and what I do I have the signature facilities, the Manhattan Project signature facilities where I ensure compliance with not only NEPA but the National Historic Preservation Act laws. So we have a National Historic Landmark Graphite Reactor.
MR. MCDANIEL: I want to talk about that in a minute. I try to categorize things otherwise I'll get lost. The mercury in Scarboro was a big issue. Was there anything else a big issue? Anything happen at that time before you had your own program?
MRS. VASQUEZ: And then we started the K-25 ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Clean up.
MRS. VASQUEZ: No, not necessarily clean up. It was the beginning of the consultation process to determine what we would do with the K-25.
MR. MCDANIEL: The U.
MRS. VASQUEZ: The U. So we started that part of the consultation, the Historic Preservation consultation before I got my own program as the Historic Preservation coordinator. 
MR. MCDANIEL: I imagine that's about the time that Bill Wilcox and Gordon Fee kind of started at the K-25 Preservation Association.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes, yes, and they were one of our consulting parties. At the time I remember working with Gary Hartman and Sheila Thornton and writing our consultation letters and putting the meetings together, coordinated the meetings for that particular process and in addition to writing some of the many MOU's or MOA's, memorandum of agreement that were before this final one that was in 2015 or '16, I believe. And we wrote in-house those MOA's.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes. From the 108 building demolition.
MR. MCDANIEL: You said Gary and ...
MRS. VASQUEZ: Sheila Thornton. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Gary Hartman and Sheila Thornton, they were DOE people, right? 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes. And they were in the environmental compliance NEPA, NHPA area.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. Speaking of which, so you worked with the K-25 Preservation Association which was a civilian group that was trying to figure out what to do with K-25 with the building. We'll get to what happened later, but anyway, were there other in your ... Well, obviously in your Historic Preservation there was going to be some grease but in your Environmental Protection Act business, were there other independent groups from DOE, community groups that you dealt with on a daily basis or on a regular basis?
MRS. VASQUEZ: There was-
MR. MCDANIEL: I know there were some I think that were established by-
MRS. VASQUEZ: The SSAB. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, the SSAB which is the ...
MRS. VASQUEZ: The Site Specific Advisory Board. There were other groups like Friends of ORNL. 
MR. MCDANIEL: You kind of had to interface with to some degree because several of them were set up to monitor environmental issues. It was part of what they did in DOE.
MRS. VASQUEZ: In DOE, correct. Those groups served as some of those stakeholders in our environment compliance process to ensure that the Department of Energy is doing what we're supposed to be doing. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Kind of watchdog groups.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Watchdog groups.
MR. MCDANIEL: How was that? How was that working with them honestly? I want you to be honest.
MRS. VASQUEZ: I always welcomed their opinions because sometimes you can become short sighted, I mean, not short sighted but just focused in that area and we're trying to get to the bottom line, whatever that is within the department and whatever that proposed action is. So I've always welcomed their opinions and having to write a response and think out how we're going to respond to those particular concerns or what have you may have been a challenge but it was done and we welcome that feedback.
MR. MCDANIEL: One of the things that I would think would be unique about this, most of the people that were on those boards are not just people like me with no scientific background. Most of these people were retired from one of the facilities and were well educated and knew what they were talking about. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: And knew exactly what they were talking about. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Which probably created a challenge in and of itself.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yeah. You can't go with a comma, note it and just brush away. No, these people, I always say, the retired person with the internet is a dangerous combination. 
MR. MCDANIEL: You know what I always say about Oak Ridge. You can tell somebody from Oak Ridge but you can't tell them much. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: This is true.
MR. MCDANIEL: You're exactly right. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: They have all the time in the world, you know what I mean?
MR. MCDANIEL: Smart people with time and the internet.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Smart people with time and energy, there you go. But it was welcomed and like I said, you appreciate the feedback and you learn from them. In communication, those folks can actually help you work through, those stakeholders can actually help you work through whatever issue you may have in mitigation for whatever that particular compliance issue was.
MR. MCDANIEL: So you can create a relationship for those people that's either antagonistic or friendly and they can be a benefit to you?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Exactly, exactly. And I always, the thought from my mentors is always, you try to do the right thing whatever that is. You do the right thing and I always thought, what is that, better to get more flies with, what's that saying?
MR. MCDANIEL: With honey.
MRS. VASQUEZ: With honey.
MR. MCDANIEL: Get more flies with honey than with vinegar.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Right. And that's always been my mantra like, “Hey we're working on this together and it doesn't serve any of us well to be antagonistic or rude. We've got to work through this.”
MR. MCDANIEL: Let me ask you this, does the pace, and I'm going to use the government as a general term because I think I can honestly say that in general, things move at a snail's pace in a lot of people's eyes. So was that a problem because people want things done, they want them done now and that's just you can't do that, you have a process you have to go through.
MRS. VASQUEZ: There's always a process and there's always a procedure or order that we in government land have to adhere to. In addition to the fact that a lot of decisions are not necessarily made right here locally, there's something called Congress and you know all those appropriations and money, that kind of thing. So yeah, that ...
MR. MCDANIEL: That could be frustrating. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Could be frustrating to some people.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure it was frustrating for you as well. I'm sure there were things that you would like to have moved a little faster.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yeah. To a certain degree. But I do understand that the nature of the beast per se. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Sometimes you just have to slowly get there.
MR. MCDANIEL: You've gotten used to it.
MRS. VASQUEZ: I've gotten used to it. We do what we need to do as fast as we can do it and we get whatever that is, done immediately. And then if we have to stop-pause for a second we do but we're still working in the background to ensure compliance.
MR. MCDANIEL: So have there been other and I want to get to Historical Preservation issues, but have there been other environmental issues that have been, that have impacted Oak Ridge in a major way over your time in Oak Ridge? 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Let's see.
MR. MCDANIEL: I guess the clean-up of K-25 was ongoing before you got here, started a long time ago.
MRS. VASQUEZ: It started a long time ago.
MR. MCDANIEL: But it took long time to get it.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Most environmental issues as far as cleanup take a long time.
MR. MCDANIEL: A long time and a lot of money. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: And a lot of money and a lot of people are involved. There have always been a lot of ongoing environmental issues and specifically in the National Environmental Policy Act issues. But there are also other environmental laws that one has to follow, the government has to ensure compliance with like CERCLA [Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act], there's a whole lot of alphabets when it comes to environmental laws and so forth the department has to adhere to. For Oak Ridge specifically there were many.
MR. MCDANIEL: I would imagine let's say the last 30 years, 30 or 40 years, environmental issues have become a much bigger part of what DOE is about, of DOE.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Specifically in environmental clean-up and legacy management, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's what I mean because at this point, over the last 20, 30, 40 years, you start seeing the degradation of some of the original facilities or the disuse, you know, they don't use them anymore like K-25, shut down the 80's. Then you have to figure out what to do.
MRS. VASQUEZ: You have to figure out what you need to do to continue to move forward with your current mission because the mission sometimes changes. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. But it continues.
MRS. VASQUEZ: But it continues, it continues, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's talk a little bit about Historic Preservation issues in Oak Ridge. Can you tell me how, how is Oak Ridge different from maybe some of the other DOE sites? Or is it different when it comes to Historic Preservation?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Oak Ridge is completely unique. Keith, I think I've drunk the Kool-Aid. Oak Ridge is completely unique in that we have three different major programs. We have an environmental cleanup here, managed through our Oak Ridge environmental management organization. You have national security here through Y-12 and you have also big science at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. So Oak Ridge is completely unique in that all of those programs are right here on the Oak Ridge Reservation in addition to the foundation of Oak Ridge is through the Manhattan Project and the atomic bomb and so forth. So that's how we differ from some of the other sites on the DOE complex.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. So you had 60,000 acres fenced in originally so there were lots and lots of buildings, structures, locations at the three facilities a K-25, X-10, Y-12, and then you've got other DOE facilities and then you have the community. Are you involved in the community or is it just, I mean Historic Preservation and private buildings, private structures?
MRS. VASQUEZ: No, strictly federal facilities, strictly federal facilities, yes. I'm aware.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course you are.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yeah. In my work it's strictly federal facilities.
MR. MCDANIEL: What has been the big one?
MRS. VASQUEZ: We have a National Historic Landmark, 1966, National Historic Landmark, we have the Graphite Reactor at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. We had at one point the signature facility of K-25 before it was demolished. We also have Beta-3, 9204-3 and 9731 pilot plant. All are Manhattan Project signature facilities here on the Oak Ridge Reservation. In addition to that we have a lot of prehistoric sites, in addition to cultural resources and archeological sites on the Oak Ridge Reservation.
MR. MCDANIEL: So are you responsible for that?
MRS. VASQUEZ: I am.
MR. MCDANIEL: The pre-Oak Ridge history.
MRS. VASQUEZ: For pre-Oak Ridge history, we have the New Bethel Church. Wheat Church is all on the Oak Ridge Reservation. Then there are lots of archeological sites as well here on the reservation too.
MR. MCDANIEL: What about pre-Oak Ridge cemeteries? Who's responsible for them?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Oh, we are. There are I believe 64, 66 cemeteries and the Department of Energy is responsible for maintaining those.
MR. MCDANIEL: In perpetuity, aren't you? 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes, we are.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because that was part of the deal. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: That's part of the deal.
MR. MCDANIEL: When the government came in.
MRS. VASQUEZ: And we are. I believe that the department is doing due diligence and doing very well with maintaining those cemeteries.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you ever hear the Colleen Black story about the cemeteries about when ... So during the Manhattan Project people could bring relatives back in to be buried in family cemeteries. Colleen Black tells a story, she said, I don't know if this is true or not but the story was that the guards would poke the bodies with pens to make sure they weren't sneaking a spy in.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Oh wow, I have not heard this. 
MR. MCDANIEL: I don't know if that's true or not, that's a good story though.
MRS. VASQUEZ: That's a good story but I don't know.
MR. MCDANIEL: I knew that the cemeteries, I didn't know if they were under your office or not, I mean maintaining those.
MRS. VASQUEZ: They are under the Department of Energy Oak Ridge Reservation to maintain those cemeteries and in fact I was at the New Bethel church at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory giving some tours and one old timer was able to, I hate to call him old timer, one former resident of the area came to Oak Ridge and he wanted to visit his twin sister and it was completely moving. I was there and I was able to make sure that he was able to see his twin sister that was buried there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MRS. VASQUEZ: So it's amazing. I think is a great thing that the Department of Energy maintains those cemeteries. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's talk about K-25. So the Big U.
MRS. VASQUEZ: The big U.
MR. MCDANIEL: I always called K-25, it was really East Tennessee Technology Park or whatever it's called these days. But K-25 was the big U. It was the original gaseous diffusion enrichment building built at the site, the K-25 site. It was, and of course you can say all this but it was touted, some have questioned this but it was touted to be the largest building under one roof in the world at the time. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Building something like 18 ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, it was like 18 months.
MRS. VASQUEZ: 18 months, oh my goodness. 
MR. MCDANIEL: It was half a billion dollars and they built it without even knowing, without even the barrier material working at the time. So, eventually K-25 became and I'm sorry…
MRS. VASQUEZ: No, no, I love it, keep going. I'm like yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Eventually K-25 worked. It was a different process than the calutrons at Y-12. It was much, much cheaper, much more cost effective for them to do that the enrichment of uranium. They did a little bit for the war and then after that they did a lot for the nuclear power industry and also for enrichment of uranium for our nuclear stockpile.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: So they had long history from the mid ‘40's until the mid ‘80's of operating K-25 the U. And they also built other facilities, other buildings out from the U that did basically the same thing, maybe a little bit more modern. So in the mid ‘80's, they shut the U down.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Correct.
MR. MCDANIEL: By this time I'm sure there was some sort of sense of what are we going to do with this building. So can you kind of pick up there and tell me what you know as far as where the U went after that? What happened with the U? 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Well, I can start with what I know in Historic Preservation.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's fine, that's fine. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: I know that there was a mission change. The goal was to reduce the footprint and we have this what you say the largest building ...
MR. MCDANIEL: It was 40-something acres.
MRS. VASQUEZ: 40-something acres of this huge building that was built not to ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Not to last.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Not to last.
MR. MCDANIEL: 40, 60 years.
MRS. VASQUEZ: 40, 60 years. That does not take away from its historical significance and what that building was used to essentially win a war. However, we have this building here and we had to determine what, the Department of Energy has to determine what do we do with that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because it wasn't just a building, it was a building that had lots of stuff in it.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Lots of stuff in it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Lots of equipment and lots of contaminated equipment.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Contaminated equipment. That's a whole different ballgame. It was not one of those buildings that you just go in, sit down and do some office work. No. We'll not go into too much specifics of the contamination and so forth that was there, but we had a problem. The department, we have a problem here.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was just the natural effects of what they did to that building. It was nothing that was nefarious, it was the natural effect of what they did. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: It was just the natural outcome of what they did at the time. So as far as environmental compliance and Historic Preservation compliance and the department we had to comply with all the rules and regulations that were associated with maintaining that building or doing whatever we need to do with the building. However, there is another goal in that we had to adhere to, which was reducing the footprint at the time, the Department of Energy's footprint. And so, this huge monstrosity of a building was there, however, it had historical significance. So we had to go through what we call the Section 106 process, the National Historic Preservation Act Section 106 and that meant we had to consider the effects, the historical effects demolishing this particular building or what do we need to do to mitigate or adhere to saving some portion of this historic facility.
MR. MCDANIEL: I would imagine you also had to take into account because money is not made on trees, is you had to weigh, okay, so we can save this and spend tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. Is that a good use of federal money?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Is that a good use of taxpayer dollars? Right, right. And so this process, what we call the consultation process to determine how we would properly interpret this historic facility took quite some time.
MR. MCDANIEL: It took years.
MRS. VASQUEZ: It took years, years and I think we talked about this ...
MR. MCDANIEL: At that time the building was just, it was just sitting there.
MRS. VASQUEZ: It was just sitting there and getting older and older and contamination and so forth. So yes, we had to come up with through consultation determine what we're going to do with that building. We had conflicting views as to whether we save a piece of it to interpret history, do we demolish the whole thing, do we save the footprint. What do we do with this facility that's contaminated?
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Unfortunately-
MR. MCDANIEL: Because it was costing hundreds of millions of dollars just to clean it up, wasn't it?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes, yes, yes. Unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to think about it, the building had to be demolished or was demolished. However, I do credit the Department of Energy and those stakeholders, those retired folks with time and all those people who were interested in the history of K-25, I credit all those people for helping the department in consultation and through their interests along with state regulators and so forth to come to decisions on how to preserve the history. So future generations will know exactly what took place at that K-25 building.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was the final decision? Even though the building is gone, how is that story going to be told?
MRS. VASQUEZ: The story is going to be told through, there's a K-25 Virtual Museum now. There are interpretive efforts at onsite and the fire station, there's going to be-
MR. MCDANIEL: Fire station. Upstairs in the fire station.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Upstairs in the fire station there's going to be a museum there to interpret the history. I remember going through that building dressed now in all my PPE, going through that building with retired personnel like Lloyd Stokes and picking out some of the artifacts in that building and some of those will be displayed for future generations to see. So there are a lot of interpretive efforts that are taking place now and moving forward for the future that will assist in telling the story of what happened at K-25. Unfortunately or fortunately we could not save a piece of that building to show the magnitude of that facility. However, through new technology, we'll be able to somehow interpret that for future generations to understand what took place there. 
MR. MCDANIEL: I've not followed lately but is there going to be like a, I know at one point they were talking about having a tower and an outline of the-
MRS. VASQUEZ: To show the footprint of the, yes. 
MR. MCDANIEL: So that will take place.
MRS. VASQUEZ: That will take place, yes. And that's great. You don't have the physical building there but you can see the magnitude of that facility, which is great. I guess for new generations, to see used technology in interpreting history, I think is really important and a great idea. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. That work is ongoing now.
MRS. VASQUEZ: It is. 
MR. MCDANIEL: That will take a few years probably because, probably, they'll get funding a little bit at a time until they're able to do everything they need to do. What part of imagining and working with Historic Preservation and determining for example, you said Lloyd Stokes took you in took you in, you all went and picked out some stuff. There maybe some things that you can't show because they're still classified.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Or contaminated.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, let's talk about classification. Do you deal with that? I'm sure you have to have some basic knowledge of ...
MRS. VASQUEZ: I have basic knowledge, however that is another organization that deals with export control and classification, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's say you have an artifact, do you have to run it by them to make sure?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yes, you do.
MR. MCDANIEL: I would imagine that the barrier material that was used in K-25 is still classified. You may not be able to even talk about that.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Do you see the tight lip?
MR. MCDANIEL: Yes, I do.
MRS. VASQUEZ: But everything is going through the proper process and channels in order for whatever is needed to be shown or highlighted-
MR. MCDANIEL: Or not be shown.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Or not be shown in interpretation of the building and the artifacts within it. 
MR. MCDANIEL: So I was going to ask you were there other big projects like the K-25 U that you've had to deal with as far as Historic Preservation goes?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Well, yes. More recently in 2015 there was the establishment of the Manhattan Project National Historic Park. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah, let's talk about the national park. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Yeah, which is great. I worked on the NEPA documentation, the National Environmental Policy Act documentation. The assessment that was done to determine whether the environmental effects and determine whether a park would need to be established and the decision. I was in the involvement of commenting and reviewing those documents. I remember the decision of trying to figure out where the park was going to be. One park, three parks, four parks. What location. I remember those discussions. I remember when the park, thought of the park was brought before Congress and they did not accept it. Then I remember when we finally did get the news that the Manhattan Project National Historic Park was going to be established and it was coming here to Oak Ridge which was a great thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: It's Oak Ridge, Los Alamos and Hanford. Did they have, I know we have park rangers here. Do they also have them in Los Alamos and Hanford? 
MRS. VASQUEZ: They do, they do. You have park superintendents. One Niki Nicholas's here and the main park superintendent at the time now is Kris Kirby and she has all the three ...
MR. MCDANIEL: She's in Denver, isn't she?
MRS. VASQUEZ: She's in Denver, yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: So that was a big deal. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: That was a big deal. The fact that I was a part of that really makes me feel proud. Really makes me feel proud that I was able to see the process from the beginning to the idea of the Manhattan Project National Historical Park. Understanding why Manhattan Project National Historic Park is even important and why people need to know this particular history to today where I'm participating on the team for NHPA, National Historic Preservation ACT Section 106 compliance. The operation of the park facilities that are here in the, our facilities that are within the boundary of the Manhattan Project National Historical Park.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well I want to ask the question because I feel like this is probably something that has not, the story that has not been told very well. I've had some interest in, I don't know if some other people have is the African-American community during the Manhattan Project. I know that Ed Westcott obviously has some great photos from that time. They've opened an exhibit at the chamber of Ed's photos. Are there any facilities on the reservation that specifically identify their story, the African-American story during the Manhattan project that you're aware of?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Not that I am aware of. However ...
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure there are some in the community.
MRS. VASQUEZ: There are some in the community. The Scarboro Center has a exhibit of the Manhattan Project. Well, I won't necessarily say just the Manhattan Project but they have an exhibit of African-American contributions to this area at the Scarboro Center Recreation Center here in town. However, a specific area for African-American history as in contributions for the Oak Ridge area, not to my knowledge. However, I do want to go back for the Atomic Integration which is the photo exhibit that was presented at the Chamber of Commerce, I think, last year sometime. I'm really, really excited, I had the opportunity to work on that project and select the photos that were exhibited in the Atomic Integration. And that was an eye opening experience just to look at the contributions of African-Americans. Then we also did other photo exhibits to show the contributions of immigrants and women in the Manhattan Project. They were all eye-opening experiences to be able to work on those projects, to do some research in history. Those folks and their stories and the contribution I just found it amazing. This generation to me is one of the greatest generations to have, whatever their background was, they came together to end a war. I mean, how great is that, right?
MR. MCDANIEL: When I first came out with Secret City, the Oak Ridge Story, the first film, I went on WUOT in Knoxville on a talk show and had people call in and one guy was just like how can you make a movie that celebrates the atomic bomb. I always said, listen, I said, “I didn't make a movie about the atomic bomb, I made a movie about patriotic Americans who came together to help in the world's worst war.” That's kind of how I feel about Oak Ridge and what it did during the Manhattan Project.  You're right. A lot of these other stories, you know, the African-American, the immigrants, the women, those specific groups of people, sometimes their specific stories get lost in the big picture. You kind of have to dig down and kind of ... 
MRS. VASQUEZ: Got to dig real deep down to find out whether they were even there. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, exactly.
MRS. VASQUEZ: And I find that unfortunate because imagery is very important and role models in STEM education, science, technology and engineering and math education for the generations, the young children, they hear, okay, the Manhattan Project and sometimes they may dismiss it because they don't see anybody that looked like them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MRS. VASQUEZ: And that's a disservice to our history.
MR. MCDANIEL: Or they do see somebody that looks like them but in a manner that may not be uplifting. You know what I mean?
MRS. VASQUEZ: Right, right. For instance when you say ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Inspiring.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Inspiring, for instance, unfortunately Oak Ridge took place during the Jim Crow era, segregation was alive and well here. However, there were African-American scientists, there were a few African-American scientists who worked on the project during the time, with Enrico Fermi and Leslie Groves and so forth and their histories we don't know anything about them. In fact, there's one person says, “Katatra, I know you do this for your work,” and I think we talked 30 minutes about my job within the Department of Energy as a Historic Preservation coordinator and Environmental Compliance Officer, however one person said, “Once you catch the bug, I know you do this as your job, but once you catch that history bug you won't be able to let it go.” I've now found that it a passion of mine. My husband says, what are you doing? I'm looking at the OSTI [Office of Scientific and Technical Information] records to find more about the Manhattan Project and the people that, the science behind it and the people that contributed to this project to again, end a war.  There are a lot of stories, there are a lot of people and one of my goals is for my daughter who's five-years-old when she sees the scientists to understand what her mommy does with the Department of Energy in Historic Preservation and be able to connect the two and see somebody that looks like her that contributed to the project and encourage her and the other person to be a scientist or an engineer or somebody that can contribute to doing something as great as ending a war.
MR. MCDANIEL: And even though my opinion, as Phil says, you're welcome to make it yours. My opinion is that even though those stories aren't told as well as they should be in Oak Ridge specifically where unlike other parts of the country there were significant scientific contributions made by minorities and women. It's just we need to tell those.
MRS. VASQUEZ: We need to tell those and it should not be an afterthought in my opinion. Not necessarily be an afterthought or one of those well, let's just celebrate this during Women's History Month or Black History Month or something. It should be integrated into the stories of General Leslie Groves and Oppenheimer to show those people work right alongside them in the Manhattan Project.  I must say, this is one of those things that I'm really, really excited about. In my research, of course I caught the history bug, I found it very disturbing that I could not find an African-American woman. Now I've read Girls of the Atomic City and, yes, Miss Katie Strickland, she's highlighted in that book, and her recently I was able to get her biscuit pan to interpret her contribution to the Department of Energy and the wonderful strives and sacrifices that she had to make here, but I could not find an African-American woman that was a scientist like myself. That bothered me, I got to say. I'm like, it has to be someone. I know during the time ...
MR. MCDANIEL: I mean, during that time.
MRS. VASQUEZ: During that time, and then the movies Hidden Figures came out recently to show the contributions of African-American women to space exploration and going to the moon. But this was in the ‘40's, right?
MR. MCDANIEL: This was 20 years before that. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: This was 20 years before. So anyway, long story short, I'm trying to find, I caught the history bug. Can you see how I light up on camera now? I caught the history bug. And I'm looking, I'm looking and I came across a woman named Carolyn B. Parker. Carolyn B. Parker, she worked at the Dayton Project and she is associated with Oak Ridge because in her science, she is a physicist and in her science she used some of the materials from the Graphite Reactor for her work. Carolyn B. Parker, an African-American woman.
MR. MCDANIEL: Physicist.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Physicist, scientist who worked-
MR. MCDANIEL: In Dayton.
MRS. VASQUEZ: In Dayton which I'm from. Dayton.
MR. MCDANIEL: During the war.
MRS. VASQUEZ: During the war, Manhattan Project, and I'm like oh my gosh. So now I find it to be a personal goal to let the whole world know about Carolyn, not only Carolyn but the other women, immigrant Spanish speaking Americans, Mexican Latinos at Hanford that worked on the project and their names will never be told. Their names will never be known because in our story of the Manhattan Project we don't recognize them. We just go through with the big names which is great but it's kind of like, there was someone else there that helped that person get to where they needed to be. There's a person named Katatra that helps Ken Tarcza, the now manager, ensure that he stays compliant with our environmental laws and regulations or other people at the department who are public servants who help our president, whomever to get where they need to get.  And so these people whose names we'll never know unless somebody like you makes a film called The Clinton 12 or whoever finds the interest and tells their story and shows their contribution. So that's what I call another part of my job in ensuring that our facilities, we preserve the history of our facilities, we maintain the grounds, the department does due diligence as far as maintaining historic preservation but we also take the time in that to recognize the people story. Interpret the people stories. White, black, Latino, woman, male. We recognize those folks who contributed to amazing part of history in the future today. What if we didn't have Jim Crow segregation laws and folks like Mr. Wilkins who was a physicist in Chicago who worked along with Enrico Fermi was able to come here which he was denied because of our segregation laws or what if Carolyn Parker was able to come here as a scientist. Would we still have the limited amount of women or African-Americans or people of color in STEM careers here in Oak Ridge? Would we still have a segregated or mostly segregated Scarboro community? I don't know, I don't know. But its worth thinking about that. You can't change history but it's for us to know what that history is and it is for us to take it upon ourselves to tell the story, to tell the story of the foundation of the great men and women who contributed to one of the greatest as I tell my kids, there's a secret involved in the Manhattan Project, it was big 'ol science experiment involved in the Manhattan Project. In addition, there is a generation of people who came together to, like you say, end a war, stop lives being unnecessarily shed for, you know, they had brothers and sisters going off to war and they used whatever their knowledge was in order to come together to form a project. They may not have known what they were working on for this project that eventually did when at the end of it they contributed to something great and their stories are worth being told. Sorry, I took up a lot of time to say that. 
MR. MCDANIEL: I was just going to say I'm glad you finally pulled your soapbox out. 
MRS. VASQUEZ: I pulled it out and I stood right on it.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's fine, that's fine. Katatra Vasquez, thank you for your service to our community and for all your work and thank you for coming by today.
MRS. VASQUEZ: Thank you. And I find it a true pleasure. I know people have, whatever their thoughts are about government workers but we are true public servants and I find myself to be a public servant, called to serve the great American nation and I'm proud of what I do every day for the Department of Energy. Thank you, Keith. 
MR. MCDANIEL: Thank you.
[End of Interview]

[Editor’s Note: This transcript was edited at Mrs. Vasquez’s request. The corresponding audio and video components have remained unchanged.]